if Microsoft is not going to support WIndows 10 especially the 32 bit edition would OS/2 Arca Noae be the better solution?


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

if Microsoft is not going to support WIndows 10 especially the 32 bit edition would OS/2 Arca Noae be the better solution?

Solution to what? An operating system to replace Windows 10? I doubt it. Some (any?) flavor of linux is going to be a better solution to "what operating system should I put on a machine that is no longer supported by Microsoft operating systems?"

Arca Noae, Haiku, MorphOS, AROS, etc. are all fun boutique operating
systems that are great to have installed on a second machine you can mess around with, but I can't imagine many people wanting to deal with the issues that would arise out of trying to use them as a daily driver.

(He says, posting from a machine running OS/2 Warp 3...)

---
* Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)

Utopian Galt wrote to All <=-

if Microsoft is not going to support WIndows 10 especially the 32 bit edition would OS/2 Arca Noae be the better solution?

Depends on what you're running. Windows 10 is going to be supported
until at least 2025, so there's some time. Are you running a 32-bit OS
for compatibility with a DOS BBS, or running on a 32-bit CPU?

If you can run a 64-bit OS but are limited in RAM, I'd look at the XFCE versions of Ubuntu or Mint. They're relatively low-memory distros and
would run nicely in 4GB of memory.

I'm not sure of Arca Noae's support for Windows apps is like, it would
be nice if someone had ported WINE over to it.

If your CPU is 32-bit, you're a little limited as some distros are discontinuing support for 32-bit CPUs. Debian still comes with a 32-bit version, as do a couple of debian-based flavors.

I have a nice older home system. It's got a 4th generation i7, 16 GB of
RAM, but no TPM chip. I can't upgrade to Windows 11 automatically, but
may be able to upgrade from CD - but no guarantees from Microsoft. I may
be finally making the move to Linux in 2025.

I'd bet that corporate use of Windows 10 compels Microsoft to push
support out a little longer.



... Only a part, not the whole
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

BY: Abbub (21:2/145)

|11A|09> |10Arca Noae, Haiku, MorphOS, AROS, etc. are all fun boutique operating|07
|11A|09> |10systems that are great to have installed on a second machine you can|07
|11A|09> |10mess|07
|11A|09> |10around with, but I can't imagine many people wanting to deal with the|07
|11A|09> |10issues|07
|11A|09> |10that would arise out of trying to use them as a daily driver.|07
It would be for Retro gaming on DOS and bbsing.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

BY: poindexter FORTRAN (21:4/122)

|11pF|09> |10Depends on what you're running. Windows 10 is going to be supported|07
|11pF|09> |10until at least 2025, so there's some time. Are you running a 32-bit OS|07
|11pF|09> |10for compatibility with a DOS BBS, or running on a 32-bit CPU?|07 Its for DOS door game comptablity. I bought a licence in 2019 for my bbs to run via a virtual machine.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3681[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Hi Utopian,

On Thursday April 27 2023, Utopian Galt said to All:

if Microsoft is not going to support WIndows 10 especially the 32 bit edition would OS/2 Arca Noae be the better solution?

What do you mean by 'not going to support windows 10'?

There is still a 32bit version of win10.. Although support ends in 2025 for
all win10 versions.


\/orlon
aka
Stephen

Rocking FSXnet with an Amiga 4000 and Zeus BBS.

--- Zeus BBS 1.5
* Origin: -:-- Dragon's Lair --:- dragon.vk3heg.net Prt: 6800 (21:1/195.5)

*** Quoting Utopian Galt to Abbub dated 04-28-23 ***

It would be for Retro gaming on DOS and bbsing.

Well, I don't think you need an updated version of the OS for that, do you? In fact, I'd probably argue that the best OS for retro gaming on DOS and BBSing is probably MS-DOS 6.22. :D But for a modern OS if I were ditching Windows and didn't want to go Mac, I'd definitely go Linux. For low maintenance, probably Pop!_OS.

---
* Origin: WalledCTTY (21:2/145)

if Microsoft is not going to support WIndows 10 especially the 32 bit edition would OS/2 Arca Noae be the better solution?

I'd say it really depends... I think you might be better served with Linux, or having a really locked down Windows install without remote access beyond the BBS services. One option might be having the main BBS on Linux and running a Windows VM internally for a door server if you want DOS doors without dealing with QEMU or DOSEMU.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)

RAM, but no TPM chip. I can't upgrade to Windows 11 automatically, but
may be able to upgrade from CD - but no guarantees from Microsoft. I may be finally making the move to Linux in 2025.

This is largely the situation I'm in - I have one PC that can (and does) run Windows-11, and my work laptop runs Windows-11. None of my other machines are capable (well, not officially capable).

For a lot of my $dayjob work I'm using WSL anyway, and when I'm not I'm using apps that are either web based, or available for Linux anyway. So I could use Linux at work - IT department permitting (I did use Linux at my last job, as did several of my colleagues).

Personally, I only run Windows 11 on this machine because running Davinci Resolve on Linux requires the $$$ version in order to get the codec support I need - and I may well pay that premium before too long and make the switch.

My workshop PC runs Windows 10, and it will almost certainly become a Linux machine in 2025 - I'd do it now except it's not a 5 minute change!

I'd bet that corporate use of Windows 10 compels Microsoft to push
support out a little longer.

I wouldn't be sure about that - it'll probably just mean that Microsoft will offer those corporates support at a price (ie, if you pay the yearly fee, you get security updates for an extra 5 years). I'm pretty sure I've heard of them doing that with previous versions of Windows..


TassieBob

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
* Origin: TassieBob's BBS (21:3/169)

For a lot of my $dayjob work I'm using WSL anyway, and when I'm not I'm using apps that are either web based, or available for Linux anyway. So I could use Linux at work - IT department permitting (I did use Linux at my last job, as did several of my colleagues).

I'd say that WSL is the only thing that makes Windows tolerable at this point. Last place I was at the IT/Ops guys were testing Linux support, would have been a nice option.

Personally, I only run Windows 11 on this machine because running Davinci Resolve on Linux requires the $$$ version in order to get the codec support I need - and I may well pay that premium before too long and make the switch.

Yeah, can understand that, pretty much what I run the most is my browser, vs code and a terminal window (docker, programming tools, etc) which run pretty much everywhere. New job starts monday, will be back on a Mac, which has its' own quirks.

Have been considering giving Resolve a try, may just pony up for full version anyway. I was wanting to play around with AI video upscaling, but most of the options were windows only, and after close to two years still haven't done anything with it.

My workshop PC runs Windows 10, and it will almost certainly become a Linux machine in 2025 - I'd do it now except it's not a 5 minute change!

That's cool, at this point, I'm mostly Linux, my laptop is mac, and pretty much everything else I touch is running Linux as well.


--
Michael J. Ryan
+o roughneckbbs.com
tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com (21:3/149)

Re: OS/2
By: TassieBob to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat May 06 2023 06:26 pm

This is largely the situation I'm in - I have one PC that can (and does) run Windows-11, and my work laptop runs Windows-11. None of my other machines are capable (well, not officially capable).

Well, thinking about it, I wouldn't mind getting a machine with 32GB of RAM and 6-8TB of NVME storage in 2025 to run Windows 11 on. :)

That would be enough of an upgrade from a 4th gen i7 and SATA-3 SSD to sway me...and I'd expect the prices to be relatively reasonable in 2025.

I wouldn't be sure about that - it'll probably just mean that Microsoft will offer those corporates support at a price (ie, if you pay the yearly fee, you get security updates for an extra 5 years). I'm pretty sure I've heard of them doing that with previous versions of Windows..

They did both with XP - extended the support horizon, *and* offered custom support for a high-five, low-six figure amount - enough that if you really needed it you could make it work, but not low enough that people would consider it frivolously. That said, they did offer a patch for a 0day after the deadline, which was nice.

With XP, the embedded version received upgrades for a couple of years more. Turns out that with a registry key, regular XP installs would get those patches, too.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Tracker1 wrote to TassieBob <=-

I'd say that WSL is the only thing that makes Windows tolerable at this point. Last place I was at the IT/Ops guys were testing Linux support, would have been a nice option.

I did a Linux desktop pilot program for my employer back in 2013, and
back then it was intriguing. We wanted to create a linux VM that would
run in a Windows host to get developers up and running quickly, but it
as quickly became a bare-metal possibility.

Libreoffice, Evolution and Chromium did most everything we needed from
an office standpoint, Centrify allowed us to use Active Directory for
logins, but the showstopper ended up being the services team
not wanting to support another management platform. SCCM had promised
to be cross-platform, but never held up the promise. We ended up
running Casper/JAMF for Macs, and would have had to add another layer for
Linux desktops.

Another project sprang out of my Linux desktop project. We were buying
monster Dell Precision workstations with single Xeon CPUs, 64 GB of
RAM and boot SSDs with 2 storage SATA drives- pretty impressive for the
time.

I did my VM image builds on an Optiplex 990 with an i7, 32 GB of RAM
and the built-in RAID with 2 Hybrid SATA drives set up as a mirror set.
Turns out my system ran the dev stack very well, but at a fraction of
the price.

Turns out the client engineering team figured you could spend your way
into any solution when you have enough money.




... Don't bite the hand that feeds you WiFi.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Re: Re: Toshiba Libretto
By: Tiny to Bob Worm on Mon Nov 06 2023 06:18 am

Laugh, I remember doing that as well! I switched to OS/2 right around that time because it worked better.

I really wanted to see OS/2 overtake Windows, but by the mid-90s, I think it was too late.

Nightfox

On 06 Nov 2023, Nightfox said the following...

Re: Re: Toshiba Libretto
By: Tiny to Bob Worm on Mon Nov 06 2023 06:18 am

Laugh, I remember doing that as well! I switched to OS/2 right aroun that time because it worked better.

I really wanted to see OS/2 overtake Windows, but by the mid-90s, I
think it was too late.

Yeah.. OS/2 Warp was basically Windows 2000 six years early..and sure enough by the time it got to Win2K service pack 2 or 3 I switched over to that
instead. The stability was just as good for me..

I kept trying to decide if I was going to say Windows 7 or XP was the last Windows I truly liked everything about the GUI.. but I hate them both lol. Win2K for life.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: fusion to Nightfox on Mon Nov 06 2023 07:09 pm

Yeah.. OS/2 Warp was basically Windows 2000 six years early..and sure enough by the time it got to Win2K service pack 2 or 3 I switched over to that
instead. The stability was just as good for me..

I kept trying to decide if I was going to say Windows 7 or XP was the last Windows I truly liked everything about the GUI.. but I hate them both lol. Win2K for life.

I liked Win2K as well. But I did like Windows XP and Windows 7 too.. I kinda liked their UIs, though I did tend to disable the Windows Themes service and have the Windows UI look more like Win2K. I preferred not having so much resources taken by the UI. Though these days, I feel like operating system UIs look too flat and uninteresting.

Nightfox

I liked Win2K as well. But I did like Windows XP and Windows 7 too.. I kinda liked their UIs, though I did tend to disable the Windows Themes service and have the Windows UI look more like Win2K. I preferred not having so much resources taken by the UI. Though these days, I feel
like operating system UIs look too flat and uninteresting.

I don't know why, but for me, WinXP feels like the best GUI experience of any OS I've ever used. I loved XP. Perhaps it's just nostalgia but I really enjoyed using it and still like using it on one of my retro builds.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

I don't know why, but for me, WinXP feels like the best GUI experience
of any OS I've ever used. I loved XP. Perhaps it's just nostalgia but I really enjoyed using it and still like using it on one of my retro
builds.

WinXP was OK, but after failed Vista I think W7 ultimately upgraded the original Windows experience to the maximum, before the've started screwing again.

I just touched Win 11 today for the first time in my life, for 2 minutes and I switched back to Mac... W10 was OK again... not so much big difference to me after W7.. it only fixed w8 badness in all front, nothing revolutionary and w11 is like poor's man macos with file explorer + browser integration brought back to windows again....

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

fusion wrote to Nightfox <=-

I kept trying to decide if I was going to say Windows 7 or XP was the
last Windows I truly liked everything about the GUI.. but I hate them
both lol. Win2K for life.

I ran a stripped down version of Windows XP with no theming, no IE, not
much of anything - to run the BBS. It used the classic 2000 theme, that
was probably the most functional environment Microsoft came up with.

For eye candy value, Windows XP with Office XP for me - with the blue
theme and bliss background. Loved the look of Office XP, but it felt
like a redux of Office 2000 - didn't have Outlook offline support yet.

I may need to spin up another XP nostalgia VM.



... Change nothing and continue consistently
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: esc to Nightfox on Mon Nov 06 2023 11:06 pm

I don't know why, but for me, WinXP feels like the best GUI experience of any OS I've ever used. I loved XP. Perhaps it's just nostalgia but I really enjoyed using it and still like using it on one of my retro builds.

I actually really liked Windows XP too. With its default UI theme, some people said they thought it looked too cartoony, and I can see why, but I think it has its appeal. I especially liked how the UI components looked, such as the buttons, sliders, etc..

Operating systems these days all have a more plain, flat UI. I feel like it's like they don't put any thought or effort into making the UI look good anymore.

Nightfox

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to fusion on Tue Nov 07 2023 07:42 am

I may need to spin up another XP nostalgia VM.

It's funny to think of Windows XP as nostalgia now. I remember using XP when it was brand new and thinking it was pretty cool.

Nightfox

It's funny to think of Windows XP as nostalgia now. I remember using XP when it was brand new and thinking it was pretty cool.

Chuckle, by the time XP fully expired I was still running 98... somewhere
along the lines I shifted to it, while it still had security updates but was
on the way out... It was a kind of spiffy dekstop... didn't use anything else until 7.... and only just last week made my first install of 10, to
accommodate steam, which #1 son keeps buying me odd things on... already in
he obsolete basket, not sure what its official expiry is.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

On 06 Nov 2023, esc said the following...

I don't know why, but for me, WinXP feels like the best GUI experience
of any OS I've ever used. I loved XP. Perhaps it's just nostalgia but I really enjoyed using it and still like using it on one of my retro
builds.

could probably still get away with using it for now.. if you used it as a X server along with a separate linux machine to send a browser and other software to it. that's how i ran gAIM (now Pidgin) on OS/2 for a while.

unfortunately wayland (or something else) might do away with that in the long run, but for now you could hold on :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

It's funny to think of Windows XP as nostalgia now. I remember using
XP when it was brand new and thinking it was pretty cool.

You're not alone. I remember when we had to phase Windows XP out, and we
had holdouts who preferred it to Windows 7.



... FOR SYSOP USE ONLY - Do not write below this line.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Nov 08 2023 06:30 am

It's funny to think of Windows XP as nostalgia now. I remember using XP
when it was brand new and thinking it was pretty cool.

You're not alone. I remember when we had to phase Windows XP out, and we had holdouts who preferred it to Windows 7.

I wasn't an XP holdout, as I liked WIndows 7 as well. But I think Windows XP was one of the best versions of Windows they produced.

Nightfox

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Wed Nov 08 2023 06:30:00

Hi, Poindexter.

I remember when we had to phase Windows XP out, and we
had holdouts who preferred it to Windows 7.

Yep, I only moved off XP because I changed job. They forced me onto Windows 7 where I stayed for 5 years. Internal IT wanted me off that but never forced the issue - in the end I managed to quit before they made me update.

Thank goodness I've been able to use Mac since then. I actually struggle to use Windows, these days.

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

You're not alone. I remember when we had to phase Windows XP out, and we had holdouts who preferred it to Windows 7.

I didn't move to Win7 until Win7 was already obsolete... but thats largely driven by most of my 'pooty systems coming from the side of the road. I
didn't have the requirements to power Win7 until late in the game.

On a side note, its probably a symptom of declining PC sales in favour of
other platforms, but its getting to be difficult to find any kind of pooter
on the side of the road these days.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

WinXP was OK, but after failed Vista I think W7 ultimately upgraded the original Windows experience to the maximum, before the've started
screwing again.

Yeah, Win7 is my next favorite after XP. For some reason I'll always have a special place in my heart for XP.

I just touched Win 11 today for the first time in my life, for 2 minutes and I switched back to Mac... W10 was OK again... not so much big difference to me after W7.. it only fixed w8 badness in all front,
nothing revolutionary and w11 is like poor's man macos with file
explorer + browser integration brought back to windows again....

Win11 was very frustrating for me. I use linux as a daily driver but I do have a gaming rig which has Windows installed. I tried Win11 on it and was very frustrated, ended up wiping everything and installing Win10. Win11 feels like Win10 with built-in adware constantly bothering you. Why should a commercial OS show you ads!?

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Operating systems these days all have a more plain, flat UI. I feel
like it's like they don't put any thought or effort into making the UI look good anymore.

I do like some aspects of this. For example I use KDE Plasma as my DE on my daily driver linux laptop, and I love it. I have everything set to dark mode but beyond that most things are plain OOTB settings. It feels like a very natural and complete UX to me.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: esc to Nightfox on Wed Nov 08 2023 05:03 pm

Operating systems these days all have a more plain, flat UI. I feel
like it's like they don't put any thought or effort into making the UI
look good anymore.

I do like some aspects of this. For example I use KDE Plasma as my DE on my daily driver linux laptop, and I love it. I have everything set to dark mode but beyond that most things are plain OOTB settings. It feels like a very natural and complete UX to me.

One thing I dislike about it is that the UI elements don't quite look like what they should be. For instance, buttons are just plain rectangles - It could be hard to tell if it's actually a button or just an area where a message might appear. Without some simulated texture (or depth), I just don't think the UI looks as good as GUIs in years past.

Nightfox

Quoting Nightfox to Fusion <=-

preferred not having so much resources taken by the UI. Though these days, I feel like operating system UIs look too flat and
uninteresting.

100% agree. We can thank mobile devices for the idiotic UI's of desktop computers today. Ugh.

~Elf

Visit our 1990's Web Site:
http://lifeseven.com/1990s


... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS 21:1/194 bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)

100% agree. We can thank mobile devices for the idiotic UI's of desktop computers today. Ugh.

You can probably also add a decline in pooty sales to that too. The long
shop, (side of the road) has gotten very sparse in computers over the last
few years. I suspect the only main to groups still buying are corporate and game boys...

I also see the same taking place in second hand stores here too... they used
to have a pretty good supply of relatively overpriced stuff but pretty much nada now.

If pooty sales are slowly going down the tube, then its probably not worth dollar wise putting the effort into making them pretty.

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

On 08 Nov 2023, esc said the following...

Operating systems these days all have a more plain, flat UI. I feel like it's like they don't put any thought or effort into making the U look good anymore.

I do like some aspects of this. For example I use KDE Plasma as my DE on my daily driver linux laptop, and I love it. I have everything set to
dark mode but beyond that most things are plain OOTB settings. It feels like a very natural and complete UX to me.

i do like KDE Plasma.. and i use it on my laptop because there are some random things you do with laptops that you just don't do with a desktop.. mainly a variety of screen mirroring, flash drive swapping, internet troubleshooting (cat5 cord direct to router) sort of shenanegans that i just don't want to "taint" with having to tinker with linux.. nothing worse than futzing with xrandr and mount while your friends wait patiently, just to watch a movie.

for my main desktop though, http://kirin.dcclost.com/~alex/fsx_rc.png

basically stripped to the bones :) and very much how i remember linux as a
sort of pick-and-choose random pile of software

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: Elf to NIGHTFOX on Thu Nov 09 2023 11:15:00

Hi, Elf.

100% agree. We can thank mobile devices for the idiotic UI's of desktop computers today. Ugh.

Yes, I remember being given a Windows mobile for work. An authentic Windows experience, it spent the first afternoon applying patches before I could even use it and would occasionally reboot just before a key meeting to install updates as well... That had the "new", "modern" tiled appearance.

The next thing I know, Windows 8 is being rolled out and it looks exactly like the phone. Supposedly it's all geared around being able to use proper Windows on a touchscreen / tablet. Gross.

I spent the next 6 months ignoring ever grumpier e-mails from IT telling me I needed to be "upgraded" to Windows 8. Eventually I managed to inherit a Mac from someone else who left the company and then ultimately resigned myself. I've still not had to face the prospect of working on any version above 7.

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Spectre wrote to Elf <=-

You can probably also add a decline in pooty sales to that too. The
long shop, (side of the road) has gotten very sparse in computers over
the last few years. I suspect the only main to groups still buying are corporate and game boys...

I (sort of) noticed this where I work. When I started, in the late 1990s,
most of my coworkers didn't have computers at home. The users were having issues hiring people who could use one to access the systems.

Between then and now, that changed. Coworkers had computers, and the users were having trouble finding people who knew how to use a system that was
not all point and click because Windows ruled the home market.

Now, it is getting back to coworkers that don't have computers, and users having trouble finding people who can interact with a computer, because everyone uses their phones. Social media access rules the market.

That last bit has come to light now that the systems are being upgraded to
be all point and click. The new user hires don't know how to do even that.


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for my main desktop though, http://kirin.dcclost.com/~alex/fsx_rc.png

That's pretty cool. I've always had respect for Slackware, it was one of my original linux distros way back in the day. I had no idea there was an OS/2 Warp DE :P

basically stripped to the bones :) and very much how i remember linux as
a sort of pick-and-choose random pile of software

Yeah, for a while I was going super minimal. I made an Openbox desktop with a panel and a right click menu and that was basically it. I enjoyed setting it up but it was missing some QOL features so I ended up just giving Plasma a shot. Turns out Plasma doesn't eat up much more RAM than running a super minimal Openbox, so... *shrug* here I am hehe

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

The next thing I know, Windows 8 is being rolled out and it looks
exactly like the phone. Supposedly it's all geared around being able to use proper Windows on a touchscreen / tablet. Gross.

This reminds me of the Enlightenment window manager for linux. E back in the day was sharp, and I really liked it and found it to be a standout. Then, they made design decisions to prepare it for mobile computing, and that really changed the trajectory of the look and feel of E. It changed it so drastically I actually gave up on using it years ago. I wonder what would have happened had they not made that pivot back then.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

On 10 Nov 2023, esc said the following...

for my main desktop though, http://kirin.dcclost.com/~alex/fsx_rc.png

That's pretty cool. I've always had respect for Slackware, it was one of my original linux distros way back in the day. I had no idea there was
an OS/2 Warp DE :P

it's actually Enlightenment e16. the original team spun it off and maintain it because a lot of people still use it. then i just used the warp4 theme.

basically stripped to the bones :) and very much how i remember linux a sort of pick-and-choose random pile of software

Yeah, for a while I was going super minimal. I made an Openbox desktop with a panel and a right click menu and that was basically it. I enjoyed setting it up but it was missing some QOL features so I ended up just giving Plasma a shot. Turns out Plasma doesn't eat up much more RAM than running a super minimal Openbox, so... *shrug* here I am hehe

yeah, it's actually quite impressive .. can only talk about KDE because i haven't used a modern version of gnome or whatever is hip for a really long time.. but that "huge amount of ram!!" that i remember is quite well contained.

maybe it always was and i only had puny machines :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (21:1/616)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: esc to Bob Worm on Fri Nov 10 2023 02:57 pm

This reminds me of the Enlightenment window manager for linux. E back in the day was sharp, and I really liked it and found it to be a standout. Then, they made design decisions to prepare it for mobile computing, and that really changed the trajectory of the look and feel of E. It changed

E reminded me of Litestep for Windows. I started using it looking for a lower-overhead environment for my BBS, and ended up endlessly tweaking it to make a custom environment for my laptop. I wish I could find the theme I had, I loved it, but ended up spending more time tweaking it than using my laptop. :)

...Am I any closer to finding what I'm looking for?
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Quoting Spectre to Elf <=-

You can probably also add a decline in pooty sales to that too. The
long shop, (side of the road) has gotten very sparse in computers over
the last few years. I suspect the only main to groups still buying are corporate and game boys...

If pooty sales are slowly going down the tube, then its probably not
worth dollar wise putting the effort into making them pretty.

I can see that as the short-term vision but even as mobile devices get
more powerful, they still require an interface. And while I know the
interface needs to be a little different on the phone and tablets due to
screen real estate restrictions, these phones are becoming so powerful
they will subplant the PC someday. My current Moto G100 gets plugged
into a 24 inch screen and paired with a mouse and keyboard now and then
for a full desktop like experience (Ready For, much like Samsungs DEX
but in my opinion better than Samsung's implementation). But, still, we
need buttons that look like buttons, not just rectangles on the screen.
We need clear deliniation between pages and fields and other elements
that we put data into in order to make sense of it and in order to
*interface* with it. Hopefully we'll get our interface elements back at
some point.

~Elf

Visit our 1990's Web Site:
http://lifeseven.com/1990s


... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS 21:1/194 bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)

E reminded me of Litestep for Windows. I started using it looking for a lower-overhead environment for my BBS, and ended up endlessly tweaking
it to make a custom environment for my laptop. I wish I could find the theme I had, I loved it, but ended up spending more time tweaking it
than using my laptop. :)

That's how I was for a long time :P Now I just settle into comfy KDE Plasma and call it a day.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2023/02/26 (Linux/64)
* Origin: m O N T E R E Y b B S . c O M (21:4/173)

esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

That's how I was for a long time :P Now I just settle into comfy KDE Plasma and call it a day.

I'm planning a day in the office sometime soon. Part of my agenda is to download all new ISOs for every distro and *BSD and not soak my cable
internet connection as I'm interested in trying out KDE - I think it's
been 20 years!

I found a local ISP that has a colo facility with a great looking space, complimentary coffee services and an organic cafe onsite, 9-5 for
$89/week. I'm tempted to convince my boss to pay for a week to get me
out of the house and onto a fast upload connection, as I need to
occasionally upload big blocks of data to our datacenter in Houston.

If so, I could skip the round-trip to a company office.



... SURELY NOT EVERYONE WAS KUNG FU FIGHTING
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Quoting Bob Worm to Elf <=-

100% agree. We can thank mobile devices for the idiotic UI's of desktop computers today. Ugh.

Yes, I remember being given a Windows mobile for work. An authentic Windows experience, it spent the first afternoon applying patches
before I could even use it and would occasionally reboot just before a
key meeting to install updates as well... That had the "new", "modern" tiled appearance.
The next thing I know, Windows 8 is being rolled out and it looks
exactly like the phone. Supposedly it's all geared around being able
to use proper Windows on a touchscreen / tablet. Gross.
I spent the next 6 months ignoring ever grumpier e-mails from IT
telling me I needed to be "upgraded" to Windows 8. Eventually I
managed to inherit a Mac from someone else who left the company and
then ultimately resigned myself. I've still not had to face the
prospect of working on any version above 7.

I ran on Apple's ecosystem from 2004 to 2015. I had the iPhones and the
Macs. It was a fun time. Since 2015 I have been running on Linux for my desktop. I have mostly stuck with the Ubuntu base. I started with XFCE (Xubuntu) then moved to KDE (Kubuntu) then Q4OS (Debian + KDE 3.5x
Fork) but have ultimately settled on Linux Mint Cinnamon where I feel
most at home and where the little details are thought of - reminds me
how the Mac always paid attention to the little details. If there were
less little issues with Q4OS (using TDE or Trinity Desktop Environment,
aka a fork of KDE 3.5) I would have loved to have stuck with that one.
But, I found myself fixing too many things too many times. But what I
loved about it, is buttons were clearly buttons, borders around windows
clearly were visible, etc. I like having an interface I can see. :-)

Linux Mint Cinnamon does a pretty good job of being a desktop OS and not
trying to merge a desktop UI with a tablet or phone UI.

~Elf

Visit our 1990's Web Site:
http://lifeseven.com/1990s


... Why does a ship carry cargo and a truck carry shipments?
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS 21:1/194 bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)

Quoting Blue White to Spectre <=-

That last bit has come to light now that the systems are being
upgraded to be all point and click. The new user hires don't know how
to do even that.

Just attach a touch screen to their work PC. Then they can poke and
swipe on the screen all day long and figure it out. <haha>

~Elf

Visit our 1990's Web Site:
http://lifeseven.com/1990s


... Live: Know the past, help the present, touch the future.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Win32
* Origin: Diamond Mine Online BBS 21:1/194 bbs.dmine.net:24 (21:1/194)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: Elf to BOB WORM on Sat Nov 11 2023 14:40:00

Hi, Elf.

But, I found myself fixing too many things too many times. But what I
loved about it, is buttons were clearly buttons, borders around windows clearly were visible, etc. I like having an interface I can see. :-)

This is why I switched from Linux as a daily OS to Mac - everything just works and I still have a proper shell. Except some very nerdy stuff where I need to fall back to Linux, which I can do by tunneling X Windows through SSH.

The GUI elements are very consistent on Mac so they look like what they are to me, possibly I've just got used to them. I don't miss the window borders, they remind me of clunky old Windows versions and for me they're wasted space - I do get annoyed by the rounded corners on Mac Windows, though - sometimes it eats into the content of the window which is... kind of unforgivable!

For some strange reason I'm fascinated by the way screen grabbing a full window also grabs the window's shadow, complete with alpha channel. It does look nice when you put the image into documentation, though.

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: Bob Worm to Elf on Sun Nov 12 2023 08:55 am

But, I found myself fixing too many things too many times. But what I loved
about it, is buttons were clearly buttons, borders around windows clearly
were visible, etc. I like having an interface I can see. :-)

This is why I switched from Linux as a daily OS to Mac - everything just works and I still have a proper shell. Except some very nerdy stuff where I need to fall back to Linux, which I can do by tunneling X Windows through SSH.

I've used Mac OS before, mostly for work, and in my experience, not everything just works all the time. I use Linux Mint at home for my BBS PC (I also run Plex Media Server on it), and things have pretty much always worked there for me. Even upgrades to new versions of the OS have always gone fairly smoothly.

Nightfox

Re: Re: OS/2
By: Nightfox to Bob Worm on Sun Nov 12 2023 12:19:40

Hi, Nightfox.

I've used Mac OS before, mostly for work, and in my experience, not everything just works all the time. I use Linux Mint at home for my BBS PC (I also run Plex Media Server on it), and things have pretty much always worked there for me. Even upgrades to new versions of the OS have always gone fairly smoothly.

Yeah, I will admit that upgrading my iMac to Big Sur absolutely screwed it. The in-place upgrade completely failed to the point where it couldn't boot and a from-scratch install was basically unusable. I legitimately thought something was physically wrong with it, perhaps the hard drive was about to fail or similar, but after abandoning it for a good while I wiped it clean and installed Ventura. Incredibly, it works like new again. Very strange...

To be fair, that's the only issue I've ever had but it was a biggie. As opposed to the continuous stream of minor niggles I had trying to use Linux as a desktop OS.

BobW
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: >>> Magnum BBS <<< - bbs.magnum.uk.net (21:1/205)

Yeah, I will admit that upgrading my iMac to Big Sur absolutely screwed it. The in-place upgrade completely failed to the point where it couldn't boot and a from-scratch install was basically unusable. I legitimately

For a while there Apple seemed to have taken the play book from MicroSloth,
and what I tend to find happens to Ubuntu uprades for me... abject faliure...

Spec


*** THE READER V4.50 [freeware]
--- SuperBBS v1.17-3 (Eval)
* Origin: A camel is a horse designed by a committee. (21:3/101)

Hello Bob,

12 Nov 23 08:55, you wrote to Elf:

But, I found myself fixing too many things too many times. But what
I loved about it, is buttons were clearly buttons, borders around
windows clearly were visible, etc. I like having an interface I can
see. :-)

This is why I switched from Linux as a daily OS to Mac - everything
just works and I still have a proper shell. Except some very nerdy
stuff where I need to fall back to Linux, which I can do by tunneling
X Windows through SSH.

The GUI elements are very consistent on Mac so they look like what
they are to me, possibly I've just got used to them. I don't miss the window borders, they remind me of clunky old Windows versions and for
me they're wasted space - I do get annoyed by the rounded corners on
Mac Windows, though - sometimes it eats into the content of the window which is... kind of unforgivable!

For some strange reason I'm fascinated by the way screen grabbing a
full window also grabs the window's shadow, complete with alpha
channel. It does look nice when you put the image into documentation, though.

+1, OSX is the best *nix desktop

Regards,
--
dp

telnet://bbs.roonsbbs.hu:1212 <<=-

... Uptime: 0d 12h 8m 45s
--- GoldED/2 1.1.4.7+EMX
* Origin: Roon's BBS - Budapest, HUNGARY (21:4/148)

This reminds me of the Enlightenment window manager for linux. E back in the day was sharp, and I really liked it and found it to be a standout.

Yep, I remember how much I was impressed by E back in the 90s with its 0.15 version if I recall it well.

Then I considered it long dead to consider that the project continued but already on visually rich world of direct competitors

But yeah, I have fond memories of E from the past as well!

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

-=[ On 11-06-23 08:55, Nightfox wrote to Tiny below: ]=-
-=[ Re: OS/2 ]=-

Hi Nightfox!

Laugh, I remember doing that as well! I switched to OS/2 right around that time because it worked better.

I really wanted to see OS/2 overtake Windows, but by the mid-90s, I
think it was too late.

I did too, ran OS/2 for my bbsing and sysop needs with dialup at that time.. I use Mac as my daily driver and only have Win11 in Parallels for those things that needs full blown Windows otherwise for the odd Windows game I play through Crossover.

Cheers,
Bryan
bhandfield(at)me(dot)com

... Everyone as they loveth, some people kiss cows.
=== MultiMail/Mac v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
* Origin: Battlestar BBS : battlestarbbs.dyndns.org (21:2/127)

I am thinking about buying an OS/2 licence since Windows 10 will not be officially supported.

Do internet old school like a generation ago.


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Quoting Utopian Galt to All <=-

I am thinking about buying an OS/2 licence since Windows 10 will not
be officially supported.
Do internet old school like a generation ago.

I run OS/2 on an older IBM P90. I tried adding a network card and the
TCP/IP stack to get it on a network so I could try what you mentioned.

What a mistake that was. Screwed up the system pretty bad. Had issues
even getting it to boot after that. Had to do a re-install from Red
Spine disk to get it working again.

Add to that that no one seems to be able to help when there are issues,
and I gave up. The system works fine, but I can't seem to get it up and
running on the network in order to use the browser.

I still use OS/2, just not as my main OS. I am using Windows 10, but
stopped updating before that shitty 'Co-Pilot' started forcing it's way
into everything.

Guess there's always Linux.

Have a wonderful day UG!

... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: CJ's Place, Orange City FL > cjsplace.thruhere.net (21:2/156)

Utopian Galt wrote to All <=-

I am thinking about buying an OS/2 licence since Windows 10 will not be officially supported.

If your goal is to run an unsupported OS when Windows 10 goes EOL, then
save your money and just keep running Windows 10. :)



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Cougar428 wrote to UTOPIAN GALT <=-

I run OS/2 on an older IBM P90. I tried adding a network card and the
TCP/IP stack to get it on a network so I could try what you mentioned.

What a mistake that was. Screwed up the system pretty bad. Had issues
even getting it to boot after that. Had to do a re-install from Red
Spine disk to get it working again.

Oh, I hated networking. I ran OS/2 Warp in a Novell environment, so I
had a couple of frame types and clients running already. For the life
of me, I couldn't get TCP/IP to play nice with the network stack, so I
ended up putting in a second network card for TCP/IP.

NT 3.51 showed up in our office a while later, and it ended up being my
OS for a couple of years afterwards.


--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: OS/2
By: Utopian Galt to All on Sun Jun 08 2025 12:40 pm

I am thinking about buying an OS/2 licence since Windows 10 will not be officially supported.

Do internet old school like a generation ago.

OS/2 isn't supported anymore either, and is much older than Windows 10. If your concern is running an OS that's still supported, I'm not sure what your goal would be by switching to OS/2, which is an even older OS..

OS/2 has since switched hands a couple times, and is currently being maintained, but it has been renamed to ArcaOS. If you want a supported OS/2, you might consider buying an ArcaOS license.

https://www.arcanoae.com/arcaos/

Nightfox

BY: Cougar428 (21:2/156)

|11C|09> |10 I still use OS/2, just not as my main OS. I am using Windows 10, but|07
|11C|09> |10 stopped updating before that shitty 'Co-Pilot' started forcing it's way|07
|11C|09> |10 into everything.|07
Co-Pilot is the reason why I am stopping my subscription to Microsoft Office. Will use Libre Office.


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

BY: Nightfox (21:1/137)

|11N|09> |10OS/2 isn't supported anymore either, and is much older than Windows 10. |07
|11N|09> |10If your concern is running an OS that's still supported, I'm not sure|07
|11N|09> |10what your goal would be by switching to OS/2, which is an even older|07
|11N|09> |10OS..|07
Its for DOS support. I could mess around with older software :)


--- WWIV 5.9.03748[Windows]
* Origin: inland utopia * california * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (21:4/108)

Utopian Galt wrote to Nightfox <=-

Its for DOS support. I could mess around with older software :)

It truly was a better DOS than DOS. It multitasked DOS windows smoothly,
lots of free memory, and you could even create a virtual DOS environment
with "real" DOS 6.22.

Back in the 90s, I ran the BBS on DOS, ran OS/2 on my desktop, and used LANTastic networking. They didn't have an OS/2 client, so I created a
DOS VDM with MS-DOS and the drivers, and had a DOS window that could
talk to the BBS.

It was pretty wild, in 1992 being able to redirect the screen/keyboard,
share printers and share drives on DOS boxes.

A little later I moved my desktop and the BBS to a single OS/2 desktop.
I didn't even notice that the BBS was running in the background.



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Utopian Galt on Wed Jun 11 2025 07:08 am

Its for DOS support. I could mess around with older software :)

It truly was a better DOS than DOS. It multitasked DOS windows smoothly, lots of free memory, and you could even create a virtual DOS environment with "real" DOS 6.22.

As in MS-DOS 6.22? As OS/2 was an IBM product, I thought it would be more equivalent to IBM's PC-DOS?

Nightfox

Guess there's always Linux.

OS/2 AND LINUX GANG!!!!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Co-Pilot is the reason why I am stopping my subscription to Microsoft Office. Will use Libre Office.

BASED!!!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

On 11 Jun 2025, poindexter FORTRAN said the following...

Utopian Galt wrote to Nightfox <=-

Its for DOS support. I could mess around with older software :)

It truly was a better DOS than DOS. It multitasked DOS windows smoothly, lots of free memory, and you could even create a virtual DOS environment with "real" DOS 6.22.

Back in the 90s, I ran the BBS on DOS, ran OS/2 on my desktop, and used LANTastic networking. They didn't have an OS/2 client, so I created a
DOS VDM with MS-DOS and the drivers, and had a DOS window that could
talk to the BBS.

Yeah, it was pretty freaking cool at the time. There are even things about ArcaOS desktop that work pretty well. It ran the sh$t out of DOS, and was 32-Bit!

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: SpaceJunk BBS Mail Server [PRIVATE] (21:4/158)

Quoting Mary4 to Cougar428 <=-

Guess there's always Linux.

OS/2 AND LINUX GANG!!!!

I use Lubuntu on an older Dell laptop and it works great! No networking
issues on Linux like I had on OS/2.

Have a wonderful day!

... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: CJ's Place, Orange City FL > cjsplace.thruhere.net (21:2/156)

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

It truly was a better DOS than DOS. It multitasked DOS windows smoothly, lots of free memory, and you could even create a virtual DOS environment with "real" DOS 6.22.

As in MS-DOS 6.22? As OS/2 was an IBM product, I thought it would be
more equivalent to IBM's PC-DOS?

With OS/2, you could create virtual DOS machines, akin to a virtual
machine nowadays. They would create a virtual machine, booting from a
DOS image, and inside that window you'd be running DOS natively, with
the ability to have separate config.sys and autoexec.bat files. from a disk image created from a DOS boot disk, and have an environment that was
100% DOS. The "Better DOS than DOS", if you will.

You could boot any DOS that way, if you needed a specific brand or
version of DOS. The DOS prompt in OS/2 was pretty good, I gotta say -
the only time I preferred it was when I had an application that needed
DOS-only drivers.

Damn, now I want to run OS/2 again...



--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

My board used to have a message base just for tech flame posts. We had
lots of OS/2 versus Amiga arguments on the board, sort of like watching
two kids fighting it out to see who's the baddest ass in the Physics
club.

- Area: nirvana.tech.flame
---------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 95
Date: 20 Jul 94 12:31:00
From: SAM UZI
To: JOHN SMITH
Subj: OS from heaven -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The duffus John Smith said to the geek Sam Uzi <=-

it is the ONLY true 32-bit multi-threaded pre-emptive multi-tasking
OS around.

...except for every single OS around that was written for non-Intel
CPUs.
All the neat shit that people claim for the latest hottest Intel
-- the stuff in your quote there -- is stuff that has always
been pretty much standard in the Motorola and Risc worlds.

sure, whatever... but OS/2 is THE BEST Operating System in the world,
can run circles around anything else, and it looks nicer, and will cook
your breakfast for you, and make your coffee, and has 3D-bordered
icons, and is nifty, and looks cool, and is True-Blue, and can run DOS
better than DOS, and will take out the garbage, and will get you chicks,
and has got a 438 Hemi duo-blaster twin quad super injection turbo
ramjet ultra thingy that makes it go real fast, and it can juggle, and
it knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake, and
it will end world hunger, and it has fine Corinthian leather, and it
never makes you say you're sorry, and it always uses a condom, and it
likes the kinds of pizza and ice cream that you like, and it plays
bitchin' guitar, and it manages files like there's no tomorrow, and its object-oriented multi-media neural-net shipping next quarter, and it is bullit-proof like 20 layers of #4 Kevlar body armor, and it is so multi-threaded that it weaves a heavy wool blanket while its idleing,
and my momma told me when I was just a lad that it was the best, and it
has a heavy manual, and it uses less characters in its name than other
OS's, and its recomended by four out of five dentists, and it can kick Superman's ass, and it's meaner than the junkyard dog, and its the
choice of the next generation, and it will let you so many things at the
same time that your head will spin, and it can dance, and ... oh never
mind... it sucks...




--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

It truly was a better DOS than
DOS. It multitasked DOS windows
smoothly,
lots of free memory, and you could

The only thing that sucked was when you tried to run something that checked for emm386 rather than just checking if it had more than 640k available :(.



--- NE BBS v1.07 (linux; x64)
* Origin: NE BBS - nebbs.servehttp.com:9223 (21:3/193)

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Thu Jun 12 2025 07:50 am

With OS/2, you could create virtual DOS machines, akin to a virtual machine nowadays. They would create a virtual machine, booting from a DOS image, and inside that window you'd be running DOS natively, with the ability to have separate config.sys and autoexec.bat files. from a disk image created from a DOS boot disk, and have an environment that was 100% DOS. The "Better DOS than DOS", if you will.

You could boot any DOS that way, if you needed a specific brand or version of DOS. The DOS prompt in OS/2 was pretty good, I gotta say - the only time I preferred it was when I had an application that needed DOS-only drivers.

Ah, that's cool. I used OS/2 a bit but didn't play with the DOS VM stuff that in-depth. I did try running my original DOS BBS (using RemoteAccess) in OS/2. I had downloaded Ray Gwynn's serial telnet driver for OS/2 and was able to telnet to my RemoteAccess BBS. I was only experimenting with that though and still only had that BBS set up for dialup.

Nightfox

Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to All on Thu Jun 12 2025 07:50 am

My board used to have a message base just for tech flame posts. We had lots of OS/2 versus Amiga arguments on the board, sort of like watching two kids fighting it out to see who's the baddest ass in the Physics club.

- Area: nirvana.tech.flame ---------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 95
Date: 20 Jul 94 12:31:00
From: SAM UZI
To: JOHN SMITH
Subj: OS from heaven ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The duffus John Smith said to the geek Sam Uzi <=-

it is the ONLY true 32-bit multi-threaded pre-emptive multi-tasking
OS around.

...except for every single OS around that was written for non-Intel CPUs.
All the neat shit that people claim for the latest hottest Intel
-- the stuff in your quote there -- is stuff that has always
been pretty much standard in the Motorola and Risc worlds.

sure, whatever... but OS/2 is THE BEST Operating System in the world,
can run circles around anything else, and it looks nicer, and will cook
your breakfast for you, and make your coffee, and has 3D-bordered
icons, and is nifty, and looks cool, and is True-Blue, and can run DOS better than DOS, and will take out the garbage, and will get you chicks,
and has got a 438 Hemi duo-blaster twin quad super injection turbo
...

There have been arguments as long as there have been online forums of some sort.. :)

Nightfox

Re: Re: OS/2
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Thu Jun 12 2025 08:39 am

Ah, that's cool. I used OS/2 a bit but didn't play with the DOS VM stuff that in-depth. I did try running my original DOS BBS (using RemoteAccess) i OS/2. I had downloaded Ray Gwynn's serial telnet driver for OS/2 and was abl to telnet to my RemoteAccess BBS. I was only experimenting with that though and still only had that BBS set up for dialup.

I managed Novell networks back then, and all of the tools were DOS-based Curses apps. I could open a ton of DOS windows and not worry about crashing the machine.

We had a modem multiplexer, one of my most shamless uses of technology was running Procomm Plus in 4 different windows and calling 4 BBSes simultaneously.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Win32
* Origin: realitycheckBBS.org -- information is power. (21:4/122)

Yeah, it was pretty freaking cool at the time. There are even things
about ArcaOS desktop that work pretty well. It ran the sh$t out of DOS, and was 32-Bit!

I installed once ArcaOS on a VM, curious about OS/2 experience which I never had in the past. But it was slacky and a bit clunky to me. I could not find myself in that environment. I believe if a lot of time was dedicated to the setup, I'd most likely experience it different, I feel that.. but I lacked that dedication and abandoned experimenting with it, eventually.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

I installed once ArcaOS on a VM, curious about OS/2 experience which I neve had in the past. But it was slacky and a bit clunky to me. I could not find myself in that environment. I believe if a lot of time was dedicated to the

Compared to what we have today, yes, it is a bit clunky, but in the 90sit was 20 years a head of it's time.

... There is no wealth but life. -- John Ruskin

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)

Compared to what we have today, yes, it is a bit clunky, but in the
90sit was 20 years a head of it's time.

You mean working like up to 2010 expectations? Bold assumption considering we had quite matured up OSX and Windows 7 back then :)

I'm pretty sure it could kick some Win95 ass maybe if UI was polished and more mainstream software available... that could make it 3 years ahead.

Not criticizing ;) just being precise and on point of being ahead.. I'd say Amiga OS was 20 years ahead of Windows too but I'd be equally romanticizing my own naiveness ;)

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Compared to what we have today, yes, it is a bit clunky, but in the 90sit was 20 years a head of it's time.

You mean working like up to 2010 expectations? Bold assumption considering we had quite matured up OSX and Windows 7 back then :)

In the US, "# of years ahead of its time" is usually a turn-of-phrase and
not meant literally.

That said, at the time OS/2 came out, it probably did seem futuristic, much like the first black-and-white MACs did. ;)


* SLMR 2.1a * I could prove God statistically. - George Gallup
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In the US, "# of years ahead of its time" is usually a turn-of-phrase and not meant literally.

We say light years ahead ;) to keep it even more abstract.

and to call something retarded/backward we used to say "100 years behind Blacks in Africa"

Second, obviously less politically correct but we culturally never cared to keep our wording balanced.

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (21:2/150)

Dumas Walker wrote to HOLLOWONE <=-

That said, at the time OS/2 came out, it probably did seem futuristic, much like the first black-and-white MACs did. ;)

I remember solid multitasking on OS/2 1.2 when Windows 3.0 was crashing constantly. Connecting to a PBX at work over a modem while connected via
Twinax to an AS/400 and serving files over MS Lan Manager over token
ring on a 386/25 - Windows was essentially just a single-tasking window
manager at that point.

Presentation Manager on OS/2 2.0 was pretty wild, too - a
context-based, object-oriented UI was ahead of the pack at the time.



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Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Dumas Walker on Thu Jun 19 2025 07:21 am

Presentation Manager on OS/2 2.0 was pretty wild, too - a context-based, object-oriented UI was ahead of the pack at the time.

Sometimes I wonder where we'd be today if OS/2 had become the dominant OS for PCs. Or maybe even BeOS, though they initially started with their own PowerPC-based computers, and by the time they ported BeOS to x86, it was probably too late. I thought BeOS had some crazy multi-tasking though, and I liked its UI - it was simple and looked like a piece of art.

Nightfox

Sometimes I wonder where we'd be today if OS/2 had become the dominant OS PCs. Or maybe even BeOS, though they initially started with their own PowerPC-based computers, and by the time they ported BeOS to x86, it was probably too late. I thought BeOS had some crazy multi-tasking though, an liked its UI - it was simple and looked like a piece of art.

I wonder these things too. I think that it would have accelerated the world of computing a couple of years at least, and we wouldn't be hamstrung by Microsoft as much as we are. If BeOS won out (which was never really gonna happen), then the world would have been a nicer place (probably), if Big Blue won out then goodness only knows how it would have looked. Probably more reliable, but they were EviLCorp. Never relly knew which was the lesser of the two evils, MS or IBM. I want to say IBM was the lesser, but tbh I will probably never know.

Cheers,Al


hyjinx // Alistair Ross
Author of 'Back to the BBS' Documentary: https://bit.ly/3tRINeL (YouTube) alsgeeklab.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Al's Geek Lab -=- bbs.alsgeeklab.com:2323 (21:1/126)

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Sometimes I wonder where we'd be today if OS/2 had become the dominant
OS for PCs. Or maybe even BeOS, though they initially started with
their own PowerPC-based computers, and by the time they ported BeOS to x86, it was probably too late. I thought BeOS had some crazy multi-tasking though, and I liked its UI - it was simple and looked
like a piece of art.

I liked both OSes, I think Macromedia tried to port some of their apps
to Be, the tech support guys had a BeBox to play with.

The problem with OS/2 was that it had a full services arm behind it. I
often wondered if it wasn't as easy to use/install because IBM was
expecting to have the customer to have a service contract with IBM.

When I used OS/2 at work the first time, we had S/38 midrange
computers, a couple of AS/400s, all PS/2 desktops and IBM token ring
networking. I could call in a tech to assist if we ran into OS/2
issues.

I don't think it was until the internet came out that people really
cared about multi-tasking; before that, Windows was really more of a UI
for most people to run one GUI app at a time.

Nightfox
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Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jun 20 2025 07:28 am

The problem with OS/2 was that it had a full services arm behind it. I often wondered if it wasn't as easy to use/install because IBM was expecting to have the customer to have a service contract with IBM.

Did they? I remember buying a boxed copy of OS/2 at my local Egghead Software and installing it and using it on my PC without a problem. I didn't need to have a service contract with IBM.

I don't think it was until the internet came out that people really cared about multi-tasking; before that, Windows was really more of a UI for most people to run one GUI app at a time.

Still, there could be software running in the background, and without good multi-tasking, the system could be unstable.

Nightfox

Did they? I remember buying a boxed copy of OS/2 at my local Egghead Software and installing it and using it on my PC without a problem. I didn't need to have a service contract with IBM.

I don't think it was until the internet came out that people really ca

about multi-tasking; before that, Windows was really more of a UI for

people to run one GUI app at a time.

I bought OS/2 Warp to run my Wildcat v4 bbs on. It ran great. My problem was when I tried to upgrade to OS/2 v4, my mouse wouldn't work. I called IBM and they wanted to charge me to get it working. I dropped OS/2 and went to Desqview. Ran that until the internet took over. BTW, I still have both
OS/2 v3 and v4 in there original boxes. I may try to resurrect them.

|11ogg
|11SysOp, Altair IV BBS
|11altairiv.ddns.net:2323

... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit...

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

Re: OS/2
By: ogg to Nightfox on Fri Jun 20 2025 11:57 am

I bought OS/2 Warp to run my Wildcat v4 bbs on. It ran great. My problem was when I tried to upgrade to OS/2 v4, my mouse wouldn't work. I called IBM and they wanted to charge me to get it working. I dropped OS/2 and went to Desqview.

Weird that they wanted to charge you for that.. IBM may have shot themselves in the foot charging for that kind of thing. Also, if someone wanted to develop software for OS/2, I heard IBM also made the developer kit fairly expensive, which probably didn't help make it popular..

Nightfox

Nightfox wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Re: Re: OS/2
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Fri Jun 20 2025 07:28 am

The problem with OS/2 was that it had a full services arm behind it. I often wondered if it wasn't as easy to use/install because IBM was expecting to have the customer to have a service contract with IBM.

Did they? I remember buying a boxed copy of OS/2 at my local Egghead Software and installing it and using it on my PC without a problem. I didn't need to have a service contract with IBM.

Not that you'd need the contract, but if you were a business customer
and ran into an issue, you'd have a couple of guys in dark suits and
white shirts offering to help. In a way, I wonder if that hampered the
user-friendly aspects of OS/2, as they didn't know how to sell to
home/personal users back then.

Not that I minded, the guys in dark suits usually ended up taking us to
lunch at a much nicer place than I could have afforded back then.

I don't think it was until the internet came out that people really cared about multi-tasking; before that, Windows was really more of a UI for most people to run one GUI app at a time.

Still, there could be software running in the background, and without
good multi-tasking, the system could be unstable.

Nightfox
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--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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ogg wrote to Nightfox <=-

I bought OS/2 Warp to run my Wildcat v4 bbs on. It ran great. My
problem was when I tried to upgrade to OS/2 v4, my mouse wouldn't work.
I called IBM and they wanted to charge me to get it working. I
dropped OS/2 and went to Desqview.

I could never get TCP/IP, NETBIOS and IPX working on Warp, much to my
chagrin, being the network guy and all. Not soon after, Windows 3.11
came around with an IP stack, and it was good enough - plus they had
all the apps.

But, OS/2 had its moment. Loved the multitasking, and running OS/2 BBS
binaries (Maximus, Squish and BinkleyTerm) was amazing. They ran in a
minimized window on my OS/2 desktop and I barely noticed they were
running.




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But, OS/2 had its moment. Loved the multitasking, and running OS/2 BBS
binaries (Maximus, Squish and BinkleyTerm) was amazing. They ran in a
minimized window on my OS/2 desktop and I barely noticed they were
running.

It was the multitasking that attracted me to it. Once I was using dos and Desqview, I never looked back.

|11ogg
|11SysOp, Altair IV BBS
|11altairiv.ddns.net:2323

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

It was the multitasking that attracted me to it. Once I was using dos and Desqview, I never looked back.

I don't see how .... the BBS always bled thru DESQview. Couldn't really do what I needed in another window with it, which led me to OS/2 2.1, the OS/2 v3 WARP which allowed me to be telnetable back in 1995.

... Ever meet a Sysop who would admit the problem was his?

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)

I don't see how .... the BBS always bled thru DESQview. Couldn't really do what I needed in another window with it, which led me to OS/2 2.1,
the OS/2 v3 WARP which allowed me to be telnetable back in 1995.

I ran my bbs on OS/2 v3 without an issue. The problem came in with OS/2 v4. That's when I move backed to DOS and DESQ/view.

|11ogg
|11SysOp, Altair IV BBS
|11altairiv.ddns.net:2323

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

I ran my bbs on OS/2 v3 without an issue. The problem came in with OS/2 v4 That's when I move backed to DOS and DESQ/view.

I ran on Warp V3 Connect for years. When I moved into my 1st apartment, I saw on egghead.com they have OS/2 Warp v4.0 for $1.88 .... it was an obvious mistype on te webpage, but they sent it. Best deal I ever got. Warp v4 was a different breed. It never did want to install correctly.

... He's not dead, Jim. He's just considering moving to Seattle.

--- Renegade v1.35/DOS
* Origin: The Titantic BBS Telnet - ttb.rgbbs.info (21:1/144)

I ran on Warp V3 Connect for years. When I moved into my 1st apartment,
I saw on egghead.com they have OS/2 Warp v4.0 for $1.88 .... it was an obvious mistype on te webpage, but they sent it. Best deal I ever got. Warp v4 was a different breed. It never did want to install correctly.

So maybe it wasn't me after all! For 30 years, I thought it was me and my mouse that created my problems. That makes me rethink my decision to try and get it back up and running. I've got a full box set of v3 and v4 still on my book shelf. What to do....

|11ogg
|11SysOp, Altair IV BBS
|11altairiv.ddns.net:2323

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Windows/64)
* Origin: Altair IV BBS (21:2/147)

It was the multitasking that attracted me to it. Once I was using dos Desqview, I never looked back.

I don't see how .... the BBS always bled thru DESQview. Couldn't really d what I needed in another window with it, which led me to OS/2 2.1, the OS/ WARP which allowed me to be telnetable back in 1995.

When you say 'bled thru' do you mean the video bled through?

If yes, then that sounds like the virtual terminal settings in advanced settings, you could switch this off easily. I experienced the same issue the other day, I just fiddled with the options and all went well after that. DesqView is really good for my needs in 2025. I have multi-tasking pretty much for whatever I want, runs fast and I don't have any bugs that I notice in protected mode.

-Al


hyjinx // Alistair Ross
Author of 'Back to the BBS' Documentary: https://bit.ly/3tRINeL (YouTube) alsgeeklab.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Al's Geek Lab -=- bbs.alsgeeklab.com:2323 (21:1/126)

back up and running. I've got a full box set of v3 and v4 still on my boo shelf. What to do....

If you're installing on real hardware it might be fun for a laugh, but AFAIR, install time was a real drag. It would probably be interesting to install in 86box or whatever its called and seeing how well it performs there.


hyjinx // Alistair Ross
Author of 'Back to the BBS' Documentary: https://bit.ly/3tRINeL (YouTube) alsgeeklab.com

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Al's Geek Lab -=- bbs.alsgeeklab.com:2323 (21:1/126)

When you say 'bled thru' do you mean the video bled through?

If yes, then that sounds like the virtual terminal settings in advanced

Nahh, sometimes it would just crash the program from the background to the foreground nd crash both windows ... just wasn't stable enough to run the BBS from and do something else.

... Truth is shorter than fiction. -Irving Cohen

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