And, certainly, rental bikes and scooters can solve some problems.

I missed this bit in the last spiel.

We've had a couple of local councils allow these things to be "trialled".
Bikes here tend to be losers. They disappear, congregate in weird out of the way locations and get near no serious use.

Scooters on the other hand, have been involved in a number of single vehicle fatalities. They're not even having to hit another car to kill themselves. There are considerations going on about requiring a license to use one.

Spec


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In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there
owns a car, and I have to wonder where those who live there and own a
car park their car when they're home. It already bothers me that the apartment complex I currently live in charges $35 per month for an assigned parking space. It almost feels like they don't expect
residents to have a car, which I think is a bit unreasonable.

I mean, if a parking garage is the most-profitable use of the land, theoretically a parking garage will spring up. And people will pay extra for the privilege.

And, if being able to park their car at the apartment complex is worth it to people, then they'll probably pay for it at a different apartment complex that has parking.

It seems odd to mandate parking if parking isn't profitable. And the point when there isn't a lot of parking around, but there are a lot of people around, then that's the point when oftentimes people don't own a car.

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Scooters on the other hand, have been involved in a number of single vehicle fatalities. They're not even having to hit another car to kill themselves. There are considerations going on about requiring a license
to use one.

Aren't they limited to 20kph?

Which I'm sure is still plenty fast enough to get yourself killed, but I think most people can run that fast for short distances, so it's not _that_ fast.

Anyway, most of the complaints I've heard about them is just that they wind up being in the way everywhere. And various regulations have made that a bit better, I think, where there are a bunch of areas where people aren't allowed to park them.

But, yeah, not a perfect solution.

But, like having space for people to bring their bike on a train, it's a solution for the last-mile aspects of public transit.

But, yes, absolutely, like all other forms of transit, there are issues.

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Re: Re: EVs
By: esc to Nightfox on Wed Oct 25 2023 06:57 pm

I was looking for a new house and there was a gorgeous development. Loved the house. Then, the landlord told us that the HOA said no parking in driveways or on the street at night, you had to park two streets over and parallel park.

That was such a red flag for me. First, there's no way I would agree to put up with that. No parking in your own driveway?! For what??? Second, this suggests to me that there are other silly HOA things I'd have to put up with.

That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those houses not have garages?

Nightfox

Re: Re: EVs
By: unc0nnected to Nightfox on Wed Oct 25 2023 10:10 pm

What I like to do is cafe hop every 2-3 hours. Gives your legs a stretch, alleviates that feeling like you are mooching off their wifi and changes up the scenery a bit. In terms of that, there's something psychological where people will be more likely to go in a cafe if it isn't empty, so by you being there taking up a table you might actually increase their business.

Interesting. Personally, I don't remember ever preferring a particular cafe because it wasn't empty.

Nightfox

esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

I'd be surprised if folks rely on it, I suspect it's probably just a feature of extroversion - wanting to be around other people and hustle
and bustle.

During Covid, a couple of virtual "cafes" popped up - web sites where
you could share a webcam with people and had music and ambient noise in
the background.

I had one of those running on my laptop, had put it to sleep and went to
a real cafe. It continued playing while I was in the cafe. It was
delightfully meta.



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Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

On 24 Oct 2023 at 09:25a, poindexter FORTRAN pondered and said...

Buying a range extender was a bridge vehicle for me, a way to test the

How does this device work? Is it a unit you take with you to plug into your EV to add range?

It's a 2 cylinder, 650cc engine. It runs a generator that charges the
battery and is built-in to the car. You can turn it on manually, or
it'll automatically turn on when the battery gets down to around 6%.

I've yet to experience that but the Kia brand (I'm guessing the BYD one also) seem to have updates coming out from time to time. I think I may
be able to download and apply them via USB to the vehicle.

BMWs have a paid service that includes voice roadside assistance, map
and software updates and the ability to manage your car from your phone.
I'm assuming as long as you're paying for the service you're getting
updates for the software. Definitely the maps.



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esc wrote to Adept <=-

But I guess people probably oftentimes didn't even leave their _neighborhoods_, so traveling to the other side of the City could reasonably be a longer trip, I imagine.

This is my experience with all my SF friends :)

At my first job, I was living in the outer sunset and commuting to
an office near Pier 39. It took my longer riding the N Judah and a
shuttle to the office than people coming in from Walnut Creek!



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esc wrote to Adept <=-

I _do_ think it's interesting that people who buy EVs tend to continue buying EVs. I suppose that means it's not as prohibitively expensive or unreasonable than detractors would have you think!

As a recent EV buyer, I'm guessing some of it has to do with range
anxiety and not knowing enough about public ev charging.

The lack of service needed is nice and the lack of anything to go wrong.

I'll probably get another EV when this one's turn is up, given that the
EV charging landscape is improving and so are ranges.



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Adept wrote to esc <=-

And ICE cars are... not cheap, either, when getting a new one.

I'm thinking my next car, if ICE, will be a used Honda or Toyota. They
last forever.

My poor Prius, before it was totalled, looked great, had 180K miles on
it, and was still on its first set of brake pads! There were reports on
a Prius group I frequented of odometers breaking - apparently they
would only go to 399K miles, and several people ran into the issue!

A 3rd gen Prius with a new lithium-ion replacement battery would be
under $10K and get you decent electronics, a ton of room, and great
mileage.

(My other tip for buying used is to have it detailed after buying. I
bought a 2011 Mazda CX-9 and had the interior detailed. Steam-cleaning
leather opens the pores of the materials and gets all of the dirt out
of the leather without damaging it. Shampooing the mats and the carpets
leaves the car smelling fresh, and the car felt brand new inside.
Several years later, it feels like a much newer car.)






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StormTrooper wrote to esc <=-

the rub. It'll be the "well off" that generally buy them, are they likely to be able to afford the extra 25% to join electric utopia probably. While for the rest of us plebs its enough to be a deal breaker.

Tha amount of people paying 3x what I paid for a used EV to drive
around a SUV or Ford truck would undercut that assumption. I'm
surrounded by moms driving 1 or 2 kids around in new-ish 7 passenger
behemoths.



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esc wrote to StormTrooper <=-

Agreed about any new car being too costly these days. That said the playing field for ICE vs EV is leveling out. My Fiat 500E cost me $15k.

Depreciation on EVs is bad for first-buyers, great for us. My 2018 BMW
i3 was $43K, I picked it up for $18K with 14k miles on it. Almost new.

In California, PHEVs have a 10 year 150K warranty that covers the
battery. A 2014 Plug-in Prius with a bad battery would be a good buy if
you could replace the battery under warranty - the engines are pretty
solid.

I think a lot of cars sat around during the covid lockdown; I know I wen
from 2000 miles a month to around 300, and since my office never opened
up again, drove a fraction of what I'd done previous to 2020.



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unc0nnected wrote to Adept <=-

Might compromise on a plugin hybrid for another 2 years and then see
what advancements in battery tech do for the range in the 2026 models

The 2024 Prius Prime looks pretty good, I think it gets 52-58 mpg on gas
and 45 miles on electric.



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unc0nnected wrote to Spectre <=-

Tacking on to this note, an interesting aspect about EV's is that they typically weight significantly more than ICE cars no? Would this
result in more wear and tear on the roads, resulting in more spent on maintaining those roads or is it all a drop in the bucket next to what
the big rigs do on a regular basis?

Drop in the bucket. I drive interstate 80 up to Donner Summit
regularly, and the combination of ice, snow and trucks have torn up the
slow lanes.



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Spectre wrote to unc0nnected <=-

They also tend to be harder on tyres too.. I suspect the wear and tear
on roads they're considering are suburban streets where you're not normally going to see anything more than maybe an 8ton truck rarely... while the extra weight in the EV on an ongoing basis will contribute significantly more.

A 2014 Corolla weight 2820 pounds, a 2014 Prius 3042, the plug-in Prius
is 3165. It's not that much of a difference. I drove 180K miles on my
Prius and didn't notice any exceptional tire wear - I still got 70K
miles on a set of Michelin Defenders (great tires, BTW) and they still
had tread left.

I have no idea.. and it gets more interesting... Apparently charging a
km rate for travel is somehow against our "constitution".

There's a guarantee of free travel between states; I wouldn't trust
that I wouldn't be tracked by a government-mandated device that tracks
miles in order to tax based on miles driven.

A bunch of years back, my transit region instituted a FasTrak wireless toll
system. Swore up and down they were only tracking tolls and didn't use
them for any other purpose, nor were there any sensors apart from the
toll sensors.

A few years later they implemented a traffic app, and people wondered
where the data was coming from. They fessed up that they had installed
sensors *everywhere* and were tracking transponders, but there was no
personal connection.

We got a nice letter apologizing/not apologizing for violating their
privacy policy and providing a FREE COMPLIMENTARY anti-static bag to
keep your transponder in when not paying tolls.

I guarantee that any mileage-tracking system will be misused.








No idea how

that came about it just popped up in the news, at the same time, I
think its 2 or 3 states have been charging said tax already the last couple of years.

Our registration requirements vary wildly from state to state here, so it'll probably be every man for himself for some time until someone figures out a way to make it work. Some require inspections and roadworthys yearly others only on transfer and everything else is just
as wacky. If they wanted to check the Km's traveled for some it would just be a matter of read the odometer at inspection, others I have no idea. A flat charge per vehicle would probably be the next thing that they try. Of course that'll penalise some and others will get off
cheap.

Spec

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Re: Re: EVs
By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Oct 26 2023 02:44 pm

In my area, I've even seen a few apartment complexes that don't appear
to have a parking lot at all. I really doubt nobody who lives there owns
a car, and I have to wonder where those who live there and own a car park
their car when they're home. It already bothers me that the apartment
complex I currently live in charges $35 per month for an assigned parking
space. It almost feels like they don't expect residents to have a car,
which I think is a bit unreasonable.

I mean, if a parking garage is the most-profitable use of the land, theoretically a parking garage will spring up. And people will pay extra for the privilege.

And, if being able to park their car at the apartment complex is worth it to people, then they'll probably pay for it at a different apartment complex that has parking.

It seems odd to mandate parking if parking isn't profitable. And the point when there isn't a lot of parking around, but there are a lot of people around, then that's the point when oftentimes people don't own a car.

I don't really see how it's odd..? In 2010, I moved into a different apartment complex, and that was the first time I ever saw an apartment complex that charged extra for a parking space. Before that, all the apartments I've ever lived at included an assigned parking space as part of your apartment lease. The fact is that people usually have a car to get around, and they need a place to park their car. What seems odd to me is charging extra for a parking space. It's not unusual for people to have a car..

IF an apartment complex is going to charge extra for an assigned parking space, then maybe they could charge extra for being allowed to use specific walkways within the apartment complex. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to lock your apartment door. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to open your windows. Charging extra for normal everyday things can get a bit ridiculous. It reminds me of what I've been hearing about car companies these days wanting to charge a monthly subscription fee to use certain features of the car (I'd heard BMW wanted to charge a subscription to allow using the heated seats - but then I heard they decided not to do that).

Nightfox

Interesting. Personally, I don't remember ever preferring a particular cafe because it wasn't empty.

I think there might have been some cafe that I went past because I thought it was _closed_, but not sure if that's the psychology aspect.

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At my first job, I was living in the outer sunset and commuting to
an office near Pier 39. It took my longer riding the N Judah and a
shuttle to the office than people coming in from Walnut Creek!

It's also kinda weird, with SF -- it's not _especially_ hilly, if you stick to the outside bits on the east and north. But if you go over the center portions, it's... frightening for someone who's from a cold place and imagines the place with ice.

So, with biking the city, one tended to learn to take certain routes and not others, because topography matters, there.

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We got a nice letter apologizing/not apologizing for violating their
privacy policy and providing a FREE COMPLIMENTARY anti-static bag to
keep your transponder in when not paying tolls.

Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming that was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.

I guarantee that any mileage-tracking system will be misused.

Yeah, the, "we have your information but totally won't use it inappropriately" is never a reassuring thing.

But the traffic tracking _is_ pretty cool.

That said, with the mileage-tracking system, I was imagining something more along the lines of, when you get your smog check done, they also write down your current mileage, and you pay accordingly.

Which, yeah, some of that mileage would not be in the state of registration, but I don't think there's any better usage-based system, at this point.

And I'm sure that the states vary widely in what sort of annual-ish things they make people do.

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apartment complex, and that was the first time I ever saw an apartment complex that charged extra for a parking space. Before that, all the

You had a car, so you paid for a parking space. Someone who doesn't have a car doesn't have to pay for space they're not using. That seems reasonable to me.

Mind you, it _wouldn't_ make sense to charge separately for a _garage_, because theoretically you could use it as a storage space for things other than cars, regardless.

of your apartment lease. The fact is that people usually have a car to get around, and they need a place to park their car. What seems odd to
me is charging extra for a parking space. It's not unusual for people to have a car..

Of the 18 places I have lived in as an adult (I may have moved around _a lot_, and that number is kinda fuzzy), 7 of them had an obvious, non-street-parking place where I was inherently allowed to store a car.

And in every one of those cases, I was either in an isolated smaller city or in a suburb.

The rest of the time was in cities.

Cars come standard with suburbs and places far away from other places. They don't in cities. Because there's less available land in cities, which means that the economic value of any given thing has to be higher to justify the land usage.

IF an apartment complex is going to charge extra for an assigned parking space, then maybe they could charge extra for being allowed to use specific walkways within the apartment complex. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to lock your apartment door. Or maybe they could charge extra for being able to open your windows. Charging extra for normal everyday things can get a bit ridiculous. It reminds me of

I don't view having exclusive right to a parking spot as a "normal everyday thing" that should be included as part of every apartment.

But I have spent a lot of time not owning a car.

But being able to lock the door or open the windows? Have you _ever_ known someone to never use those things?

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Re: Re: EVs
By: Adept to Nightfox on Thu Oct 26 2023 05:59 pm

IF an apartment complex is going to charge extra for an assigned parking
space, then maybe they could charge extra for being allowed to use
specific walkways within the apartment complex. Or maybe they could
charge extra for being able to lock your apartment door. Or maybe they
could charge extra for being able to open your windows. Charging extra
for normal everyday things can get a bit ridiculous. It reminds me of

I don't view having exclusive right to a parking spot as a "normal everyday thing" that should be included as part of every apartment.

But I have spent a lot of time not owning a car.

But being able to lock the door or open the windows? Have you _ever_ known someone to never use those things?

Well, that was sort of my point. I know very few poeple who don't own a car (even in the larger city nearby), so it does to me seem like a fairly common everyday thing. But I know different places are different in that regard.

Nightfox

A 2014 Corolla weight 2820 pounds, a 2014 Prius 3042, the plug-in Prius
is 3165. It's not that much of a difference. I drove 180K miles on my

Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger batter y packs for the range anxiety crowd. Thats like driving around with 2-3
extra people in your car before you put anyone in there...

Obviously not every car is going to be exactly the same, but the
corolla/prius isn't exactly comparing apples for apples...

Prius and didn't notice any exceptional tire wear - I still got 70K
miles on a set of Michelin Defenders (great tires, BTW) and they still
had tread left.

Nice work, I have to freely admit I don't even know what I get out of the
tyres I'm using.. never measured..

Spec


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Re: Re: EVs
By: Adept to Arelor on Wed Oct 25 2023 08:35 pm

That's... not a train problem, though it _is_ interesting how much more thin

It is not a border control. You pick a train from one city to the next, you have your luggagge and belongins scanned etc etc.

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Re: Re: EVs
By: unc0nnected to Spectre on Wed Oct 25 2023 10:08 pm

So how are they planning on implementing that tax? Do they send someone to check on your odometer and then tax you based on the mileage?

Here, they just try and calculate how much they ought to tax a car of your characteristics and apply a flat annual rate.

I think their decision on which cars tax the most comes down to non-practical factors, though, but rather they try to take money from people who can pay it.

If you have a four-wheeled peanut from fifty years ago which pollutes as heck they don t tax you much, because obviously you are poor and you don t have much to take. If you buy an hyperefficient hybrid they tax your guts out because you are obviously capable of spending loads of money.

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where people will be more likely to go in a cafe if it isn't empty, s

Interesting. Personally, I don't remember ever preferring a particular cafe because it wasn't empty.

Agreed, in fact i see it as a bonus, but realized over the years that I might be the exception, not the rule in a lot of cases :)

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That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those houses not have garages?

Yes, however tiny garages and no basements. Most Californians tend to use their garage as storage space since there are no basements.

Nevertheless this was ridiculous and not something I was willing to put up with :P (plus, I have three cars).

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As a recent EV buyer, I'm guessing some of it has to do with range
anxiety and not knowing enough about public ev charging.

Which is totally valid

The lack of service needed is nice and the lack of anything to go wrong.

Which is awesome, I concur. My Fiat only requires tires and brakes (and thanks to regen braking, my brakes only engage when I hit 6mph or slam on them, so hypothetically my pads will last forever). I loathe going to car dealerships for service so this is a big plus for me :P

I'll probably get another EV when this one's turn is up, given that the
EV charging landscape is improving and so are ranges.

Yeah, we're going to keep our little around town commuter until it blows up or the batteries die or whatever happens to it lol. After that we'll likely get another small commuter. It's just so easy, you can park it anywhere, it's actually a blast to drive, don't have to pay for gas. Oh, there are unexpected additional benefits, like the air conditioner working immediately. Anywho, yeah, I dig having an EV. But we also have an SUV that is traditional ICE but we need the space since I have to haul lumber and tools and things like that.

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Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger

I mean, this car is _tiny_, pound for pound it's still one of the lighter cars on the road. Kinda feels like we're splittin hairs here ;)

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Over here the government offered a $7000 rebate on an new EV
purchased... so that has made quite an impact on the uptake and also motivated us to look at making the switch.

We had similar here for a bit as part of the plan to EV the unwilling population. It did depend on the list price of the vehicle in question though. It was only on new cars and it was ultimately nixed on the basis it wasn't helping anyone that couldn't afford a car to buy one, only subsidising those that already could.

Our somewhat brain dead poli's can't make up their minds.

Certainly not saying the whole EV thing is for everyone but for folks

I can see there are going to be segments where it makes sense. On close inspection it doesn't appear to be the panacea that the electric utopians would have you believe though. City, for cleaner local air, in smaller vehicles for shorter convenience drives. These appear to be things they do well.

ST

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Tha amount of people paying 3x what I paid for a used EV to drive
around a SUV or Ford truck would undercut that assumption. I'm
surrounded by moms driving 1 or 2 kids around in new-ish 7 passenger
behemoths.

Shrug. The arse tends to fall out of EV prices faster due to battery longevity concerns. Newish? It's still probably already depreciated some ~40% from new.

The type of vehicle is going to be horses for courses... I happen to have one of those horrible 7 seater beasts... I have it not because I fill it with people on a daily basis, but because if I have to move the whole family in one go it's the only way without taking 2 vehicles. On the flip side the thing I have is only a 4cyl powered job.

ST

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Aren't they limited to 20kph?

Hmm we have odd laws... yes they're limited to 20Kph and the commercial hire ones probably are, but you can go as fast as 25kph and remain somewhat legal
it looks like a weird grey area. Over 25Kph and its definitely illegal.

The bulk of local fatalities have been head injuries (cue Midnight Oil). Usually younger people, some wrapped around street sign posts, some sliding into gutters... 20Kph is roughly double the accepted running speed for a human. As always its not the speed that kills its the sudden stop.

Spec


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Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming that was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.

Assuming its the metallic looking ones, they're metal coated and conductive.
In themselves probably not much of a "Farraday Cage" without grounding it to something to sink whatever energy they pick up.

Spec


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Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger

I mean, this car is _tiny_, pound for pound it's still one of the lighter cars on the road. Kinda feels like we're splittin hairs here ;)

I used that because it was handy I can find those figures. Batteries do not scale well though, the big electric shitter that's going up against your Ford Ranger or something is going to weigh proportionally more. You need "tons"
of extra battery to carry not only the extra heft of the vehicle, but the
extra heft of the battery required to move the thing in the first place.

The example given, big small or indifferent is ~25% that's not a hair
splitting fraction to add. You add 25% to something in the order of 2 tons...

Spec


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That's... not a train problem, though it _is_ interesting how much more

It is not a border control. You pick a train from one city to the next, you have your luggagge and belongins scanned etc etc.

Ah, okay. Seems reasonable enough for a way of not having to watch your own luggage, but, yeah, I'm fine with the German method of just having space for luggage.

But I suppose, like the US's security theater response to 9/11, Spain had a security-theater response to 3/11. (Or 11/3, presumably, given that it's Europe)

Hopefully less invasive than the US version, but, yeah, I could see that as being highly annoying.

And, as much as I'd like greater safety, I don't think there's a lot of data that says these things do much of value.

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sliding into gutters... 20Kph is roughly double the accepted running speed for a human. As always its not the speed that kills its the

Nah, I meant sprint speed, when I said, "running speed".

And top-level marathon runners average over 20kph for the entire distance.

The bulk of local fatalities have been head injuries (cue Midnight Oil). Usually younger people, some wrapped around street sign posts, some

Yeah. Basically, it's easier to make fatal mistakes while being drunk and acting stupidly on a scooter than being drunk and acting stupidly not on a scooter.

Though I'm sure plenty of people have died while sober, and the dangers are why commercial scooter things mention how people should wear a helmet.

But I'm probably more scared of cars when on a scooter than I am of going 20kph, even though I'm sure it's a non-zero risk of death. All assuming I'm not wearing a helmet, because I'm unlikely to carry one around with me for these type of things.

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Assuming its the metallic looking ones, they're metal coated and conductive. In themselves probably not much of a "Farraday Cage" without grounding it to something to sink whatever energy they pick up.

I guess it would be a Farraday bag, in this case, and I'm thinking the grounding requirements would be met by the air and/or whatever is touching them, since it's not like the radio waves being blocked require high energy.

Though I'm still wondering how well the "anti-static bags" work for blocking the signal.

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Re: Re: EVs
By: esc to Nightfox on Thu Oct 26 2023 08:46 pm

That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those
houses not have garages?

Yes, however tiny garages and no basements. Most Californians tend to use their garage as storage space since there are no basements.

Houses where I am tend not to have basements either. I see some people parking their cars on the driveway, though I might be tempted to buy a shed or something for the back yard to use for storage so that I could park my car in the garage.

Nightfox

I guess it would be a Farraday bag, in this case, and I'm thinking the grounding requirements would be met by the air and/or whatever is touching them, since it's not like the radio waves being blocked require high energy.

Guess its going to depend on the frequency attenuation, how much the
metallised film will hold, and how much leakage you get thereafter. But short of trying it, no idea.

Spec


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Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

It's also kinda weird, with SF -- it's not _especially_ hilly, if you stick to the outside bits on the east and north. But if you go over the center portions, it's... frightening for someone who's from a cold
place and imagines the place with ice.

I could see how it would be
in the back of your mind if you grew up with it. I hate driving up to
Lake Tahoe at night, when the temp gets below 32 I imagine black ice on
all of the bridges (which ice up first).

I lived in an area we called Baja Pacific Heights, and I used to run up
the hill and back down to the Marina, down through Golden Gate Park to
the beach, and over the hill and across the Golden Gate Bridge into
Sausalito. I got used to hills.

I ran one of my usual routes with a friend who ran on the flats in the
peninsula and he was out of gas at the first hill - didn't realize how
hilly SF was until he ran it!




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Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming that was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.

The transponder would go beep beep when you went through the toll booth,
but no beeps when in the bag. That's as far as I researched it. :)

That said, with the mileage-tracking system, I was imagining something more along the lines of, when you get your smog check done, they also write down your current mileage, and you pay accordingly.

Oh, no - they wanted some sort of tamper-proof transponder mounted in
the car. Real-time location data with no consequences for misuse.




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Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

A 2014 Corolla weight 2820 pounds, a 2014 Prius 3042, the plug-in Prius
is 3165. It's not that much of a difference. I drove 180K miles on my

Fiat 500, 954Kg, 500E 1290kg. A lot of these things are getting larger batter y packs for the range anxiety crowd. Thats like driving around with 2-3 extra people in your car before you put anyone in there...

Yeah, but the 500e is a full EV. The original poster was talking about
hybrids, if memory serves. Much smaller batteries, but they have a gas
engine and an electric motor.

I'd think the lower weight of the electric motor compared to a gas
engine would reduce the weight gain.

Prius and didn't notice any exceptional tire wear - I still got 70K
miles on a set of Michelin Defenders (great tires, BTW) and they still
had tread left.

Nice work, I have to freely admit I don't even know what I get out of
the tyres I'm using.. never measured..

I became a Tire Nerd when I had my Prius. Back in 2014, low
rolling-resistance tires were all the rage, and all the manufacturers
were competing with alternate compounds and designs to get more mpg out
of cars. That seems to have mostly subsided in marketing.

The Defenders gave up 1-2 mpg compared to LRR tires, but they were
better than most non-LRR tires, had great wet traction, and lasted
twice as long as LRR tires. I figured that made the MPG penalty a wash,
and felt much more safe in the rain than an intentionally slippery
tire.

Spec

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esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Which is awesome, I concur. My Fiat only requires tires and brakes (and thanks to regen braking, my brakes only engage when I hit 6mph or slam
on them, so hypothetically my pads will last forever). I loathe going
to car dealerships for service so this is a big plus for me :P

Regen braking rocks. My Prius was at 183K miles on the original pads!

Yeah, we're going to keep our little around town commuter until it
blows up or the batteries die or whatever happens to it lol. After that we'll likely get another small commuter. It's just so easy, you can
park it anywhere, it's actually a blast to drive, don't have to pay for gas. Oh, there are unexpected additional benefits, like the air conditioner working immediately. Anywho, yeah, I dig having an EV. But
we also have an SUV that is traditional ICE but we need the space since
I have to haul lumber and tools and things like that.

Yes to all of the above with my i3. I figure with an EV plan through
PG&E I'm still saving money compared to what I paid in gas plus
occasionally charging my Prius without a plan. And, now that we've
gotten in the habit of running the washing machine and dishwasher
off-peak, we're saving more that way, too.

I got my car as a city car, for trips around town and occasional trips
to Santa Cruz and San Jose. I'm tempted to try it on longer trips -
almost took it to Donner Summit yesterday but chose against it.

Paso Robles/Cambria is certainly in range - and I know of a couple of
inns with charging stations.



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StormTrooper wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Shrug. The arse tends to fall out of EV prices faster due to battery longevity concerns. Newish? It's still probably already depreciated
some ~40% from new.

Mine depreciated 59 percent in 5 years. Good for me, bad for the seller. Battery still shows 99% capacity.

The type of vehicle is going to be horses for courses... I happen to
have one of those horrible 7 seater beasts... I have it not because I
fill it with people on a daily basis, but because if I have to move the whole family in one go it's the only way without taking 2 vehicles. On the flip side the thing I have is only a 4cyl powered job.

Yeah, I complain about behemoth cars in car parks and school pickup
lines, but it's usually when I know they're a 2 SUV family. :)

We have one small car that gets good mileage for local trips and parent
getaways, Craigslist hauls, and a SUV for when we have 4+ people or
long family trips with dogs.



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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to unc0nnected <=-

Drop in the bucket. I drive interstate 80 up to Donner Summit
regularly, and the combination of ice, snow and trucks have torn up
the slow lanes.

Replying to myself: I took that drive yesterday, and the slow lane is
nit just rougher, but in some parts has literal depressions/ruts in the
roadway the width of 18-wheeler tires.



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Nightfox wrote to esc <=-

That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do
those houses not have garages?

Since I married, I've never been able to fit my car into any of the
garages we've had.

My new house doesn't have a garage! We have a covered carport and an
internal storage room that runs the width of the house. It's a much
nicer arrangement.



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Re: Re: EVs
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Sat Oct 28 2023 09:02 am

That's a bit ridiculous.. But I feel like it begs the question: Do those
houses not have garages?

Since I married, I've never been able to fit my car into any of the garages we've had.

I had a house from 2015 to 2020, and although it said it had a 2-car garage, it seemed like it wasn't quite big enough for 2 cars.

My new house doesn't have a garage! We have a covered carport and an internal storage room that runs the width of the house. It's a much nicer arrangement.

When I was growing up, we had a house with a covered carport, but no storage room, though it did have a basement. It was an older house, built in the 1940s.. Basements aren't very common with newer houses here, for some reason.

Nightfox

Yeah, but the 500e is a full EV. The original poster was talking about hybrids, if memory serves. Much smaller batteries, but they have a gas engine and an electric motor.

In most cases here hybrids appear to be fading away... let me find a weird alternative that comes to mind...

Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance
for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other options, I suppose.

I decided the camry was odd, because they seem to have become the volvo with the bowls hat on the rear shelf of the 2020s... bloody camry drivers :)

Spec


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On 27 Oct 2023 at 06:43a, StormTrooper pondered and said...

We had similar here for a bit as part of the plan to EV the unwilling population. It did depend on the list price of the vehicle in question though. It was only on new cars and it was ultimately nixed on the basis it wasn't helping anyone that couldn't afford a car to buy one, only subsidising those that already could.

This is also happening here, the incoming government is looking to end the scheme. The scheme as it stands only applied to EV's under 80k in value and then depended on if they were fully electric or PHEV etc.. so the rebate amounts did vary a bit.

Our somewhat brain dead poli's can't make up their minds.

Ours seems set to change dependant upon who is in power for each three year term <--- my best guess.

I can see there are going to be segments where it makes sense. On close inspection it doesn't appear to be the panacea that the electric
utopians would have you believe though. City, for cleaner local air, in smaller vehicles for shorter convenience drives. These appear to be
things they do well.

Yep I think EVs are part of the solutions mix but not the total solution to any broader issues..

Kerr Avon [Blake's 7] 'I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going' avon[at]bbs.nz | bbs.nz | fsxnet.nz

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Are anti-static bags inherently Farraday cages? Since I'm assuming th was the point of it, rather than being anti-static. But I had never thought about the connection before.

The transponder would go beep beep when you went through the toll booth, but no beeps when in the bag. That's as far as I researched it. :)

That's probably enough to count for this, then.

I mean, there could be enough signal leakage, but weak enough to communicate in one direction or the other.

That said, with the mileage-tracking system, I was imagining somethin more along the lines of, when you get your smog check done, they also write down your current mileage, and you pay accordingly.

Oh, no - they wanted some sort of tamper-proof transponder mounted in
the car. Real-time location data with no consequences for misuse.

Yeah...

I guess, at this point, we're basically all under constant surveillance due to carrying a phone around, but somehow something mandatory like that just sounds... bad.

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Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other
options, I suppose.

Batteries. They're heavy.

I decided the camry was odd, because they seem to have become the volvo with the bowls hat on the rear shelf of the 2020s... bloody camry
drivers :)

Around here, Camry's are stereotypically driven by Asian grandmothers
with a decoration hanging from the rear view mirror and kleenex box in
the back shelf.

I never understood the kleenex box thing. It's as far as it can be to
maximize inconvenience.

I drove a 2002 Camry in gold, and heard all the jokes about them. Then,
one day, I was driving to a consulting gig in San Francisco. I was
driving on Pacific through chinatown and came to a 4 way stop.

3 gold Camrys.
3 Asian grandmothers.
3 chinese lantern ornaments hanging from rear view mirrors.
and me.




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Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other

Batteries. They're heavy.

Granted and its the bulk of the extra weight in EVs but I don't quite get why there's a ~250Kg variation in the infernal combustion versions over the fixed 1655kg for the Hybrid...

Spec


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Spectre wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Camry ~1470-1610kg Camry Hybrid 1655kg no idea why there's such a variance for infernal combustion.. possible capacity, and other

Batteries. They're heavy.

Granted and its the bulk of the extra weight in EVs but I don't quite
get why there's a ~250Kg variation in the infernal combustion versions over the fixed 1655kg for the Hybrid...

Oh, I see what you're asking now. Camrys come with a 4 or 6 cylinder
engine. Maybe that's the difference?



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Hi Avon!

Avon wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

At this stage we're getting a couple of vehicles. An EV6 and a BYD Dolphin.

We're still waiting for the BYD Dolphin here in the UK. A good buy with the
Kia EV6, that is an awesome car with a great range. Well chosen in both cases. I have bought myself a 2nd-hand 2014 model Nissan Leaf Tekna with a 24kWh battery, which is a fun city car. Silly cheap to run on cheap rate between 00:30-04:30 - I spend on average about A£30 (approx $40 US) per month on electricity for the commute I make, which is about 10% of what I had to spend monthly on my "economical" Seat Leon 1.6 TDI.

I've arranged one with our current retail supplier and will have better kWh rates from 9pm to 7am.

If you have some static batteries (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) at your house, this would also be the best time to charge them so you have cheap power during
your peak.

Tomorrow we have someone coming to install a Wallbox unit. I'll be shutting down 1/100 and 1/10 HUBs over that time while the sparky does
his thing. I have posted an update in FSX_NET about that outage. :)

Yes it's a brave new world for us but I'm looking forward to being part
of it.

Welcome to EVlution!



Regards,
Jan Henkins

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On 04 Nov 2023 at 02:20a, dotslash pondered and said...

We're still waiting for the BYD Dolphin here in the UK. A good buy with the Kia EV6, that is an awesome car with a great range. Well chosen in both cases. I have bought myself a 2nd-hand 2014 model Nissan Leaf Tekna

Thanks :)

Yes the Dolphin is new to both Australia and New Zealand markets, there's about 200-ish Dolphins registered in New Zealand now and they have only been on the roads for about 2 months at best.

Things I like about the BYD Dolphin are it's battery tech, the general level of safety tech and other fit out that comes with car for the $$ you pay. We're finding some of the safety features rather aggressive when they kick in such as lane keeping assist. But you can disable them before you drive but each start up of the vehicle you need to do it again (and again) if you want to have the car set up the way the driver wants it.

There's been one over the air update so far and we've had the car just a few weeks, so perhaps in time they will make some of those settings less aggressive and more 'sticky' so you don't have to turn them on/off before each drive.

EV6 has been nice to drive, I'm charging it up to 80% as the battery tech seems to be such that it's kinder to the battery to run it between 20% - 80% most of the time. It's got plenty of zip especially in Sport mode. I may have used this mode a few times now :)

If you have some static batteries (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) at your house, this would also be the best time to charge them so you have cheap power during your peak.

No nothing, but it has got me thinking. The Tesla Powerwall is available in my country but I have not looked at costs, install etc. of it... I think for now we've got to get our heads around the vehicles and slip into a normal groove of use/charging etc. of them first.

Tomorrow we have someone coming to install a Wallbox unit. I'll be

Welcome to EVlution!

Thanks, got the Wallbox sorted and the installer did a tidy job, have used it twice now and so far no issues. :)

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