Hi,

I'm just considering switch from openbox to libwc on my rpi4b 4gb.

Is there a performance drop or increase of mem usage I should worry about?
I use it as a desktop.

Roto

... expert (n): Someone who knows where to look for the answer.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

Ondrej Bucek <usenet@vk3heg.net> writes:

Hi,

I'm just considering switch from openbox to libwc on my rpi4b 4gb.

Is there a performance drop or increase of mem usage I should worry about?
I use it as a desktop.

When I slapped a new sd image on my pi500, it was automatically on
wayland. Honestly, can't tell the difference if that helps.'

Performance numbers, I haven't checked. So rarely do I load the gui on
my systems. I sort of dwell in tty.

D

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:13:49 -0700, Daniel wrote:

So rarely do I load the gui on my systems. I sort of dwell in tty.

I use the command line a lot, too. But doing it in a GUI terminal emulator gives you so much more capability (e.g. copy/paste between windows, scrollback) than running a plain text console.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Ondrej Bucek <usenet@vk3heg.net> wrote:

Hi,

I'm just considering switch from openbox to libwc on my rpi4b 4gb.

Is there a performance drop or increase of mem usage I should worry about?
I use it as a desktop.

When I switched Kubuntu on Intel from X11 to Wayland performance notably improved, perhaps due to better use of the GPU. I haven't tried it on a Pi.

Theo


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 22/10/2025 10:41, Theo wrote:

Ondrej Bucek <usenet@vk3heg.net> wrote:

Hi,

I'm just considering switch from openbox to libwc on my rpi4b 4gb.

Is there a performance drop or increase of mem usage I should worry about? >> I use it as a desktop.

When I switched Kubuntu on Intel from X11 to Wayland performance notably improved, perhaps due to better use of the GPU. I haven't tried it on a Pi.

Theo

There is a general rule that after a time, any chunk of software is so
full of bodges and patches and hacked on bug fixes and cruft that is
worth rewriting from the ground up.



--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/22/25 05:30, Ondrej Bucek wrote:

Hi,

I'm just considering switch from openbox to libwc on my rpi4b 4gb.

Is there a performance drop or increase of mem usage I should worry about?
I use it as a desktop.

Roto

.... expert (n): Someone who knows where to look for the answer.

You can go back and forth so no risk if you don't like it. I have an LG monitor that doesn't like to play with Wayland, so the screen saver
turns off the monitor but won't turn it back on. Wayland doesn't work
with RealVNC (I'm quite fond of RealVNC). There are other options.
Menus and panel changes are different but more or less understandable.

--

Knute Johnson

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:13:49 -0700, Daniel wrote:

So rarely do I load the gui on my systems. I sort of dwell in tty.

I use the command line a lot, too. But doing it in a GUI terminal emulator gives you so much more capability (e.g. copy/paste between windows, scrollback) than running a plain text console.

Yeah I use tmux. But for my use, a gui isn't necessary unless i need a
ful web experience - not often. Yes yes I'm a freak.

D

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 18:36:08 -0700, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:13:49 -0700, Daniel wrote:

So rarely do I load the gui on my systems. I sort of dwell in tty.

I use the command line a lot, too. But doing it in a GUI terminal
emulator gives you so much more capability (e.g. copy/paste between
windows, scrollback) than running a plain text console.

Yeah I use tmux.

Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple windows/tabs open
at once is a game-changer.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Yeah I use tmux.

Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple windows/tabs
open at once is a game-changer.

Yeah, but he mentioned he's using tmux.

It's a terminal utility which enables you to have multiple terminal windows/panels, switch between them, arrange them on the screen, copy/paste etc. all with just keyboard shortcuts. It's pretty neat.

... A toast -- To a kinder gentler echo

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A49 2024/05/29 (Linux/64)
* Origin: 2o fOr beeRS bbS>>20ForBeers.com:1337 (1:105/420)

On 22/10/2025 22:05, druck wrote:

On 22/10/2025 14:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is a general rule that after a time, any chunk of software is so
full of bodges and patches and hacked on bug fixes and cruft that is
worth rewriting from the ground up.

It's a great way of creating a whole new set of bodges and bugs, by
throwing away all the years of knowledge and bug fixes.

Yes, but usually from a better starting point

The Wayland crew decided to avoid some of this by simply not
implementing great chunks of functionality and refusing to ever get to feature parity with X11.

Indeed. My one experience of trying to run X over a network revealed
dire performance and flaky behaviour.

Like, who needs it?

---druck

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.



--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/10/2025 02:36, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:13:49 -0700, Daniel wrote:

So rarely do I load the gui on my systems. I sort of dwell in tty.

I use the command line a lot, too. But doing it in a GUI terminal emulator >> gives you so much more capability (e.g. copy/paste between windows,
scrollback) than running a plain text console.

Yeah I use tmux. But for my use, a gui isn't necessary unless i need a
ful web experience - not often. Yes yes I'm a freak.

Depends: many of my machines have no GUI at all. Except via a web
application.

D

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/10/2025 08:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/10/2025 22:05, druck wrote:

On 22/10/2025 14:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There is a general rule that after a time, any chunk of software is
so full of bodges and patches and hacked on bug fixes and cruft that
is worth rewriting from the ground up.

It's a great way of creating a whole new set of bodges and bugs, by
throwing away all the years of knowledge and bug fixes.

Yes, but usually from a better starting point

The Wayland crew decided to avoid some of this by simply not
implementing great chunks of functionality and refusing to ever get to
feature parity with X11.

Indeed. My one experience of trying to run X over a network revealed
dire performance and flaky behaviour.

Like, who needs it?

---druck

I run X apps across the home network all the time. I have a small 1L
computer that acts as a NAS and runs headless. Mostly I just ssh into it
but there are times when it's easier to run X across the net.

At work I use RDP onto a Windows server over the VPN to access data
centre developmemt machines in Netherlands from my home. I use X for
accessing the Linux machines onto the Windows server and RDP to get it
to my laptop. X across the data centre 1/2.5/10Gb network is plenty fast
and RDP compresses the data nicely to me. Fast enough to watch video
generated on a Linux box, X its way to Windows and RDP its way to me.

ssh -C -X someone@somehost to enable compression and X11 forwarding.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 23/10/2025 13:16, Theo wrote:

mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

I run X apps across the home network all the time. I have a small 1L
computer that acts as a NAS and runs headless. Mostly I just ssh into it
but there are times when it's easier to run X across the net.

At work I use RDP onto a Windows server over the VPN to access data
centre developmemt machines in Netherlands from my home. I use X for
accessing the Linux machines onto the Windows server and RDP to get it
to my laptop. X across the data centre 1/2.5/10Gb network is plenty fast
and RDP compresses the data nicely to me. Fast enough to watch video
generated on a Linux box, X its way to Windows and RDP its way to me.

ssh -C -X someone@somehost to enable compression and X11 forwarding.

A while back I was playing running remote Wayland apps over ~50Mbps VDSL using Waypipe. It works impressively fast - eg remote Youtube video playing works well enough. You can also tunnel audio. Due to latency it works a
lot better than X forwarding over the same connection. However it doesn't let you have persistent apps, ie you close down the client (eg a laptop) and want the app to stay running to reconnect later.

wprs supports that, but there was a bug with screen scaling (for X11 apps using Xwayland) that made it awkward to use. I should go back and see if they've fixed that.

Theo

Current main home machine runs Debian 13 + Mate with X not Wayland. I
must try more options including Waypipe. One day there won't be any X so
it would be nice to know how to move from there. Nice to know now not
when an update removes X ;-)

Oh sorry it's not Windows. Did my last Win10 upgrades on the old
machine this Debian box has replaced and also on a W10 VM I have on here
for 2 mapping programs that are Windows only. Oh how I was delighted to
see a list of updates and also OneDrive installed on to the W10
instances without asking or appearing in the list of things to be
installed. Fucking Windows, die, die, die!



--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

I run X apps across the home network all the time. I have a small 1L computer that acts as a NAS and runs headless. Mostly I just ssh into it
but there are times when it's easier to run X across the net.

At work I use RDP onto a Windows server over the VPN to access data
centre developmemt machines in Netherlands from my home. I use X for accessing the Linux machines onto the Windows server and RDP to get it
to my laptop. X across the data centre 1/2.5/10Gb network is plenty fast
and RDP compresses the data nicely to me. Fast enough to watch video generated on a Linux box, X its way to Windows and RDP its way to me.

ssh -C -X someone@somehost to enable compression and X11 forwarding.

A while back I was playing running remote Wayland apps over ~50Mbps VDSL
using Waypipe. It works impressively fast - eg remote Youtube video playing works well enough. You can also tunnel audio. Due to latency it works a
lot better than X forwarding over the same connection. However it doesn't
let you have persistent apps, ie you close down the client (eg a laptop) and want the app to stay running to reconnect later.

wprs supports that, but there was a bug with screen scaling (for X11 apps
using Xwayland) that made it awkward to use. I should go back and see if they've fixed that.

Theo

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 20:30:01 +0000, Ondrej Bucek wrote:

Yeah I use tmux.

Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple
windows/tabs open at once is a game-changer.

Yeah, but he mentioned he's using tmux.

Which is not designed to take advantage of a GUI.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 13:51:53 -0700, Daniel wrote:

I've used gui's for years. Still do but only for rare necessities.

Youd be fucking shocked how I used my computers, almost offended, that I don't use GUI's for almost anything on a routine basis.

I?m not ?offended?, I just feel you?re missing out on taking the most advantage of your computer -- even if you are primarily command-line-
oriented.

A big part of my transition away from a standard workstation lifestyle
to a low power/fanless platform like RPI was a trial run that
effectively became permanent.

OK, the early Raspberry Pi models found it a struggle to run a decent GUI,
but I don?t think that matters so much with current ones. Also you can run
a fairly lightweight GUI, out of the several choices available -- just
enough to run up multiple terminal emulator windows. Give it a try for a
few days, and see how much more productive you can be.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 20:30:01 +0000, Ondrej Bucek wrote:

Yeah I use tmux.

Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple
windows/tabs open at once is a game-changer.

Yeah, but he mentioned he's using tmux.

Which is not designed to take advantage of a GUI.

I've used gui's for years. Still do but only for rare necessities.

Youd be fucking shocked how I used my computers, almost offended, that I
don't use GUI's for almost anything on a routine basis.

A big part of my transition away from a standard workstation lifestyle
to a low power/fanless platform like RPI was a trial run that
effectively became permanent.

Similarly, I opted for a six month trial of life without a cellphone and relying on my landline combined with a small screen tablet on LTE for
SMS. That was in 2018.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 27/10/2025 20:51, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 20:30:01 +0000, Ondrej Bucek wrote:

LD>> Yeah I use tmux.
LD>
LD> Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple
LD> windows/tabs open at once is a game-changer.

Yeah, but he mentioned he's using tmux.

Which is not designed to take advantage of a GUI.

I've used gui's for years. Still do but only for rare necessities.

Youd be fucking shocked how I used my computers, almost offended, that I don't use GUI's for almost anything on a routine basis.

Everyones use case id different. I spend a lot of time running 2D and 3D
CAD software. No way to avoid a GUI there.

I watch a lot of videos.
Ditto.

My friend who is doing mathematical research into billion element
matrices doesn't need a GUI but he does need to keep the windows open to
avoid overheating

A big part of my transition away from a standard workstation lifestyle
to a low power/fanless platform like RPI was a trial run that
effectively became permanent.

Similarly, I opted for a six month trial of life without a cellphone and relying on my landline combined with a small screen tablet on LTE for
SMS. That was in 2018.

I adopted a cell phone because I needed to receive texts.
I adopted a smart phone because it came with Wifi calling when I was
living in an RF desert

Honestly that's as far as it goes.
You pick what you need to live the life you choose. What surprises me is
that other people get surprised about anyone's personal lifestyle.



--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

On 27/10/2025 20:51, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 20:30:01 +0000, Ondrej Bucek wrote:

LD>> Yeah I use tmux.
LD>
LD> Try a GUI terminal emulator. Being able to have multiple
LD> windows/tabs open at once is a game-changer.

Yeah, but he mentioned he's using tmux.

Which is not designed to take advantage of a GUI.

I've used gui's for years. Still do but only for rare necessities.
Youd be fucking shocked how I used my computers, almost offended,
that I
don't use GUI's for almost anything on a routine basis.

Everyones use case id different. I spend a lot of time running 2D and
3D CAD software. No way to avoid a GUI there.

I watch a lot of videos.
Ditto.

My friend who is doing mathematical research into billion element
matrices doesn't need a GUI but he does need to keep the windows open
to avoid overheating

Sounds fun. I can't imagine such large matrices. Makes me wonder how
large a pi grid would be needed to effectively crunch such work.

A big part of my transition away from a standard workstation lifestyle
to a low power/fanless platform like RPI was a trial run that
effectively became permanent.
Similarly, I opted for a six month trial of life without a cellphone
and
relying on my landline combined with a small screen tablet on LTE for
SMS. That was in 2018.

I adopted a cell phone because I needed to receive texts.
I adopted a smart phone because it came with Wifi calling when I was
living in an RF desert

Honestly that's as far as it goes.
You pick what you need to live the life you choose. What surprises me
is that other people get surprised about anyone's personal lifestyle.

I know, right?

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)