Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:04

ak>> When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation
ak>> is above others.
DP> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
DP> school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi! Ward,

On 25 Jan 22 09:46, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need. The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia. No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Do not open tagline. No user-serviceable parts inside.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny-side up on the desktop (3:640/1384)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:05

ak>> Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans.;-)
DP> As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some
DP> Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment -
DP> just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some
DP> geopolitican reasons:)

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was
100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:28, you wrote to me:

That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop
being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same language law as Russia? :)

Best regards,
dp.
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:14

ak>> The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they
ak>> bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic,
ak>> Yugoslavia also had the
DP> But who was going to stop civil war?
ak>> right to return its lost territories back.
DP> "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but
very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:32, you wrote to me:

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was

War is always a disaster. But i don't see that people in Russia are unhappy because Russian air forces in Syria killed a lot of children.

100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

We had our own Chechnya. A disaster created by ourselves.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:34, you wrote to me:

"Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but

I talk to Russians in Ukraine every single day multiple times. They are my colleagues, but not brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs to keep Yugoslavia alive?


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:21

ak>> Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a
ak>> balanced position on this account. That why everything was
ak>> peaceful when Yanukovich was in power.
DP> Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that situation
who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the peaceful
agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 11:06

ak>> Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to
ak>> dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never
ak>> allow it.
GZ> It could be the other way around! Many russians say that:
GZ> "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people"
GZ> and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin
GZ> said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so
called
GZ> ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many
GZ> russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a
tool to
GZ> assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
GZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian at
home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution
is to preserve both the languages and make the country with areas that
speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all
people living in the country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:47, you wrote to me:

Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Best regards,
dp.
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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 18:41

GZ> A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all
GZ> descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in
GZ> Europe". This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians
GZ> believe.

Historically it is true. There were never such countries as Ukraine and Belarus. They always were parts of either Poland or Russia, when Poland
itself became a part of Russia. But it was long ago.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:30

DP>>> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia
DP>>> for school exams?:)
ak>> You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs
ak>> to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)
DP> West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
DP> understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
DP> language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can
speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from Ukraine
speak Russian.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:17, you wrote to me:

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can

But why Tatars can't use their own language for school exams?

speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from
Ukraine speak Russian.

Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force Ukranians speak Russian.
It was impossible to live in Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:41

ak>> very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia.;-)
DP> You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
DP> but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
DP> Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
DP> to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On
the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian
at home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the country with
areas that speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada,
Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in the country.

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because russian would dominate. In all areas. If we would apply the same logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140 mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people today speak english instead of irish.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:29, you wrote to me:

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On

Civil was is always a disaster. And NATO stopped that war. Croatia, Serbia and other former republics now live peacefully.
Wthout NATO this bloodshed was going to continue for many years.

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII.
;-)

All I know is that I can now visit Croatia and Serbia (and I did this 4 years ago), there is no war there.
And average salary in Croatia is higher than in Russia :)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo
was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had such power over Yanukovych?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Tuesday January 25 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had
such power over Yanukovych?

We know nothing about their personal relations..

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:37


ak>> The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks
ak>> Russian at home and consider it as a native language. So the only
ak>> possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the
ak>> country with areas that speak different languages. Like
ak>> Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end
ak>> of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in
ak>> the country.

GZ> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ> russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

GZ> If we would apply the same
GZ> logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are
GZ> less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140
GZ> mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were
GZ> 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian
GZ> language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people
GZ> today speak english instead of irish.

Well, Estonians can make a law that every Estonian should know Estonian.
But why Russian children in Estonia should study in Russian schools in Estonian only? You know perfectly well, that if you have a difficulty in understanding a certain thing reading it in your native language, you
will never understand it better studying it a foreign language. So in
Estonian schools should be lessons of Estonian, but certainly Russian
children there should be taught other subjects in the language of their choice.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:32

ak>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
ak>> Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
ak>> 1995. Why NATO
DP> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 26 2022 10:12, you wrote to me:

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the
ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it into a military conflict.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do
the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we would make russian official then they would have one more excuse not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for
centuries!

I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100 years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their own republics and created their own literary languages.
If I would be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much? They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!
Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
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On 25/01/2022 18:46, Ward Dossche : Ghil Zvidgzul wrote:

Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

Australia will do whatever its US overlords tell it to do.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
   I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
   have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

Too late! The Kiwis have already invaded Australia.


--
Regards
David

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* Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)

On 25/01/2022 19:24, Paul Quinn : Ward Dossche wrote:

 WD>> 2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need.  The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia.  No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

:)

--
Regards
David

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* Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 10:17

ak>>>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big
ak>>>> areas with Serbs population which was either
ak>>>> killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO
DP>>> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP>>> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in
DP>>> 1991?
ak>> It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious
ak>> -- the ultra- nationalists are to blame here too.
DP> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations
when some fucking guys clench power with a dead grip, and they refuse to
give up power at any price. A building becomes unreconstructable prison,
and the only way out is to blow it up all and build a new building. I
like how it happen in Romania. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 11:08

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian --
ak>> so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian
ak>> language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the
ak>> Russian language was used for centuries!
WD> The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
WD> historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
WD> into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 13:44

GZ>>> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ>>> russian would dominate. In all areas.

ak>> Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A
ak>> human nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he
ak>> will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

GZ> I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and
GZ> 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because
GZ> russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we
GZ> would make russian official then they would have one more excuse
GZ> not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for
GZ> everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian
GZ> speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

You should see how it has been done in the civilized countries, that's
all. Take for instance the prosperous Switzerland. They don't fuck each
other brains on the account of languages. Another matter is that unltra-nationalists as a rule don't respect people of another nations.

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so,
ak>> hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there.
ak>> But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used
ak>> for centuries!

GZ> I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100
GZ> years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the
GZ> Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary
GZ> language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains
GZ> of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by
GZ> russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the
GZ> modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas
as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

GZ> peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian
GZ> (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their
GZ> own republics and created their own literary languages. If I would
GZ> be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have
GZ> common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew
GZ> that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then
GZ> it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin
GZ> speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the
GZ> same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much?
GZ> They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!

Just imagine another situation. Suppose that in 2014 Russian
east-ukrainian ultra-nationalists came to power in Kiev, and they
declared Russian to be the only eligible language in a unilateral Russian-speaking Ukraine. Then partisans would fight in western Ukraine,
and we see the reversed situation. ;-)
The matter is not who can learn another language. The matter is in
violation of freedoms and customs of people that formed for centuries. Especially it is dangerous when two nations divide one country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hello, alexander!

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is
also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine, Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate. Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s.
Not to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those cossacks - as little russians.
For an english speaker who doesn't know better it could look russian: https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
But we both know this is ukrainian.
The lands of Don Cossacks and Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33 (Holodomor).
Ghil.
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Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 27 2022 08:45, you wrote to me:

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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Alexander,

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

What you can notice here is that people don't really give a fuck about that language... it's just a language. Massive floods in July killed a pile of people and destroyed hundreds of homes ... the solidarity from the other language-community was impressive ... more help than the government managed to offer.

What we notice is that the langauge-border is also an economical border with opportunities lacking "on the other side" and it is 'that' which causes the uneasyness. So I'm assuming in Ukraine it is somewhat the same ... it's about opportunities for business, to find jobs, to provide a future for a family ... opportunities which are lacking in one of the regions.

This is something that could be handled by the EU if Ukraine were to join because the EU recognizes special needs of regions separate from what the country-borders are ... there are support programmes especially for that purpose ...

It's not bout Ukraine being governed from Brussels, it remains autonomous but about the opportunity to tap into resources which are available and develop itself ... that is totally different from a system where an individual in a palace in Moscow decides for himself what is good ...

The best tool to eliminate hostility and to prevent wars, is to promote trade and economic processes, that's exactly why the foundation of the EU was laid way back when ... to prevent historical foes Germany and France to launch yet another WW debacle once the dust had settled ... and it seems it worked. No more wars between the EU members ever since its creation.

I'm young enough to remember Soviet troops invading Hungary, Czechoslvakia, Poland ... every time with troops coming from far in the east having no clue what was up and brainwashed thinking they were on a liberation mission or exercises having no idea in which country they were.

If you go to Budapest, there still are the buildings with battle-damage from the 1956 uprising ... Hungarians decided to keep it as a reminder ... I can't believe Russians will want to repeat history and think you can solve a thing by military interventions ... that goes as well for the USA btw.

War is good for business, all kinds of tools are developed to kill people and why buy them if you can't use them, right? Armies are also a way to hide unemployment ... if you're too dumb or too lazy to get a job, go into the armed forces, they provide meals home clothing and a salary .... In the middle ages and after the kings had mercenaries to carry-out their dirty business, that has not changed. That's not the way to go ... if you see the cost that goes into armies like the USA, Russia, China ... that money is more than enough to eradicate hunger and poverty in the whole world, even on Antarctica.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 26 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 10:14

ak>> If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English
ak>> is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at
ak>> least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been
ak>> Russian.

GZ> 3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine,
GZ> Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated
GZ> by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate.
GZ> Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s. Not
GZ> to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by
GZ> the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language
GZ> spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little
GZ> Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those
GZ> cossacks - as little russians. For an english speaker who doesn't
GZ> know better it could look russian:
GZ> https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
GZ> But we both know this is ukrainian. The lands of Don Cossacks and
GZ> Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33
GZ> (Holodomor). Ghil.

Well, let's leave the history alone -- historians often were not
unbiassed, and wrote their works according orders from the current
authority, or according own perverted understanding.

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in Ukraine
still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept anything
unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will
be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and fight back and
will make a running nose to the offender.

In other words, if Ukrainian nationlists thought about Russian part of population in Ukraine as a weak person - it was a gross mistake. And
they should learn a wise Chinese saying -- don't start a war if you
unsure you can win. Both parts of Ukraine are strong and they must live peacefully and respect each other.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 15:16

DP>>> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much
DP>>> better.
ak>> Political views of course are another reason for civil
ak>> wars, but these wars always move history forward. The main
ak>> problem are the situations
DP> I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
DP> Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know
that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no
proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life in
Lybia was not bad as it is now.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:20

ak>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
ak>> from Ukraine speak Russian.
DP> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
DP> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
DP> Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hello, alexander!

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended
by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept
anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and
fight back and will make a running nose to the offender.

How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin or bolsheviks for that): https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt
You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian). Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic Ukrainians.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 28 2022 09:57, you wrote to me:

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know

Military destruction of several African states to create delusional Great Islamic State of the Sahel - was ok for you?

that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no

Do you know anything about Islamic Legion which was used by Ghaddafi for that task?

proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life

Do you know that Ghaddafi was even paying to Australian aboriginals to create terrorists cells in Australia?

in Lybia was not bad as it is now.

You cannot rape minds of the whole generations for many years and expect country to became some normal country after that.
I know Lybian guy who still remembers how he was warching public hangings on Lybian TV as a child where people were agonizing hanging on the ropes and Huda Amer (very famous Lybian politican, Benghazi major later in her life under Ghaddafi's rule) was pulling legs of some guy with screams that he deserve that.

Do you still pro-Ghaddafi? May be you also think that Stalin's mass purges were ok for our country?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 28 2022 10:41, you wrote to me:

speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
from Ukraine speak Russian.

Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for Ukraine as we have in Russia?
Because you are Russian nationalists?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 28.01.2022 12:20

ak>> Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
ak>> Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be
ak>> offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make
ak>> and accept anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead
ak>> of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow
ak>> to be offended and fight back and will make a running nose to the
ak>> offender.

GZ> How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is
GZ> speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to
GZ> ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front
GZ> where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time
GZ> they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they
GZ> are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same
GZ> time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of
GZ> russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin
GZ> or bolsheviks for that):

https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet.
Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common with languages.
It is the map of dialects of the Russain language across Russia, but the Ukrainian language is not a dialect. The map tells how Russian language
was distorted on different part of Russia. And in Ukraine of course it
has the influence of the Ukraine and Polish languages. The author
exactly told about dialects of the Russian language.

GZ> You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian).
GZ> Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor
GZ> famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most
GZ> ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those
GZ> who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic
GZ> Ukrainians.

It is a propaganda -- in that famine killed people many nations, Russian including. It is a lie to say that it was only Ukrainians. Volga region
was effected not less than part of Ukraine.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
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Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 28.01.2022 13:49

ak>>>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people
ak>>>> that came from Ukraine speak Russian.
DP>>> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
DP>>> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in
DP>>> Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian
DP>>> language.
ak>> Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.
DP> I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
DP> Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
DP> nationalists?

I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably have the
right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern and southern
parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal in this
question, and when somebody orders any people to speak different
language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in Ukraine be
happy to start speak Ukrainian there will be no Crimea separation and
Dombass war.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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Hello, alexander!

https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet. Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common
with languages. It is the map of dialects of the Russain language

In 1914 in Russian Empire that was exactly how the russian language was divided by the linguists into: Great Russian, Little Russian and White Russian (each with it's own 'govory'). Little Russian (ukrainian) was spoken exactly where the map shows. Ukrainian(litte russian) and Belarus (white russian) weren't even considered languages but merely dialects of the russian language.
In fact in Moscow and Vladivostok today they speak exactly the same language because the spoken form of the "Russian language" which is Moscovian dialect/Standard Russian was that of the nobility and bourgeoise in the Russian empire. Peasant's speech was not studied and after the Russian Revolution rapidly declined and dissapeared.

Ghil.
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Sunday January 30 2022 16:58, you wrote to me:

I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
nationalists?

I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was
always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably

I've been there and no one around hated me.

have the right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern

"Right no to learn Russian" - that's funny!

and southern parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal

Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some ethnic group.

in this question, and when somebody orders any people to speak
different language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in

So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to speak Russian?


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
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BY: alexander koryagin(2:5075/128.130)

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of years before.

Boundary lines change. Such as the United States inheriting territory. Unfortunately Biden is literally Putin's puppet more than the left in the United States thinking Trump was Putin's puppet.
--- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 30.01.2022 17:57

DP> Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those
DP> people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some
DP> ethnic group.
ak>> in this question, and when somebody orders any people to
ak>> speak different language it violates their freedom. If
ak>> Russian people in
DP> So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to
DP> speak Russian?

It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect
to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and Ukrainians
in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the person who must be called an Ukrainian?

The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke
Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the
Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian
people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their
small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian was from
them, and it was their decision.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
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*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 31 2022 09:26, you wrote to me:

It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect

"Order" is not something we have in Russia ;)

to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and
Ukrainians in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the
person who must be called an Ukrainian?

I know some of them. Nice people, BTW!

The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the

It was like this, in fact.

Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the
Ossetian people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian
was from them, and it was their decision.

No, they were forced to do it. Just ask anyone from Osetia - are they ok to use they native language for school exams?


Best regards,
dp.
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