Hello, alexander!

Hi, Lee Lofaso!
I read your message from 13.01.2022 18:34

Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in
Europe that Russia will be allowed ??to have (or keep)? I
wonder which countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to
have (or keep)?

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to
join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will become closer to NATO. ;-) It would be 1:1 after the talks. ;)

Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

"Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.

Once again this destructive fossil fuel industry, that keep on causing so much harm to our planet, reared it's ugly head. :-(



..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange revolution).

I wonder if I'm the only to whom this sounds so ridiculous ... Leave the people alone ...

"Kharkov Accords": The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017
until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural
gas.

But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

But Russia invaded Crimea, right? So the whole idea of Kharkov Accords becomes moot. No?

Why even require naval facilities in the Black Sea? It's not as if
another seafaring power could invade it unnoticed ... No?

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to join NATO.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case Ukraine decided to
join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 14 2022 10:51, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become closer
to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand Putin not to

NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway.. They are very close.
Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is alone in his bunker.. ;)


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Ward!

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
Ukraine decided to join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ghil!

Friday January 14 2022 17:33, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

The russian Black Sea Fleet is there since the end of 18th
century. Russians didn't want to lose that "outpost" in case
Ukraine decided to join NATO.

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
Fleet?

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

ROTFL :)

Kursk...?



..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Don't you worry about that. We'll take care of them in the narrow straits between Denmark and Sweden, like we've done since the Middle Ages.

Unless they do a Whiskey on the Rocks and go aground, outside a Swedish naval base, in the Bleking archipelago...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_S-363


..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Björn!

Friday January 14 2022 23:53, you wrote to me:

Russia is very famous for it's fleet - we always tried to sink
our ships ourselves, without external help ;)

ROTFL :)

Kursk...?

It was a very terrible disaster :( Better examples:

1. Crimean war (1853-1956). All Russian Black Sea fleet (more that 90 ships) was sunk by ourselves. Very proud about that, even got monument in Sevastopol.
2. Japan war (1904-1905). Ships "Varyag" and "Koreets" we sunk by their crew, got very famous song how heroic they were (very proud!).
3. World War I. We surrended to Germany and were forced to sunk all Black Sea fleet in 1918. About ~17 ships. We have monument for that event. Very proud!

A couple of similar events...

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

A fleet there serves no purpose ...

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.

Turkey could easy block Russian fleet in Black See.

According to a convention signed a long time ago Turkey controls the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Russia is a Black Sea state. And always wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Friday January 14 2022 18:17, you wrote to me:

According to a convention signed a long time ago Turkey controls the Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits and regulates the transit of naval warships. The Convention guarantees the free passage of civilian
vessels in peacetime, and restricts the passage of naval ships not belonging to Black Sea states. Russia is a Black Sea state. And always

Turkey is a NATO state, BTW.

wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of
Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility of
the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational formation
of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't exsists anymore as a single country.
We've spent billions of dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of our biggest mistakes :(
In USSR we were more happy to send tanks and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our citizens. What a shame!

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Ghil,

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's Baltic/Pacific/Northern
Fleet?

Certainly for the Baltic as well.

A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Dmitry!

wanted a foothold in the Mediterranean Sea. Now because of
Russia-Syria relations, Russian Navy is using the naval facility
of the Syrian city of Tartus, officially known as "Operational
formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea".

Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of our biggest mistakes :(
In USSR we were more happy to send tanks and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our citizens. What a shame!

And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ward!

It's securing Russia's maritime access to the world.
Would you say the same thing about Russia's
Baltic/Pacific/Northern Fleet?

Certainly for the Baltic as well.

A Russian fleet in the Baltic and the Black Sea is by every definition
in the book trapped by NATO should it ever get dirty ... no way to get out, commonly refered to as a turkey shoot.

If they would do that... but they know they can't emerge victorious from this World War III.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Friday January 14 2022 18:48, you wrote to me:

Syria is a war zone for many players, it's actually doesn't
exsists anymore as a single country. We've spent billions of
dollars for that failed state since 50s at got nothing. One of
our biggest mistakes :( In USSR we were more happy to send tanks
and planes to Syria than to produce toilet paper for our
citizens. What a shame!

And if Ukraine is a war zone why would The United States and its
allies in NATO carrying out exercises in the Black Sea? Or if arming

NATO ships were in Black Sea since 50s at least. It's their right to be there. We've tried to get some Turkey's territory in 40s, this is a payback.

Ukraine could transform it into a failed state? Do you think the

Ukraine was mostly ok before Russian invasion. Syria collapsed without external help.

americans care about that using Ukraine to provoke Russia could mean
the end of Ukraine in case of russian invasion?

Our problem is that we think more about USA than about our own citizens. My pension will be about 10x less than Ward's (and I am very optimistic person!)
Why do you think I should be paid less? Because of Syria? I've been there 4 times, it's a shithole, we even have to pay for entry and exit visa! Unlike guys from Saudi Arabia, for example. It's just not fare.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 14.01.2022 12:50

LL>>> Today it is just Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin. They are the
LL>>> deciders of Europe's future. Which side will get which
LL>>> settlements. That sort of thing. Not even Boris Johnson was
LL>>> invited to play in this round. I wonder which countries in Europe
LL>>> that Russia will be allowed?? to have (or keep)? I wonder which
LL>>> countries in Europe that the USA will be allow to have (or keep)?

ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will become
ak>> closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he could demand
ak>> Putin not to join with Belarus -- because in this case Russia will
ak>> become closer to NATO. It would be 1:1 after the talks.

GZ> Putin doesn't want to "lose" Ukraine. He thinks in the future there
GZ> could be another Yanukovych appointed by a pro-russian friendly
GZ> Ukraine like it already happened in 2010 (even after 2005 Orange
GZ> revolution).

His point of view is that Russia is surrounded by enemies. From this
point he can be understood. Suppose in Mexico some forces come to power
who are against the USA. And they submit a request to Putin to make
Mexico a part of Russia. ;-)

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 15.01.2022 01:35

ak>> Putin wants Ukraine not to enter NATO because NATO will
ak>> become closer to Russia. If Biden had a sence of humor he
ak>> could demand Putin not to
DP> NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
DP> They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
DP> alone in his bunker.. ;)

He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Saturday January 15 2022 22:47, you wrote to me:

NATO is already at Russian borders - Latvia, Estonia, Norway..
They are very close. Putin just wants to talk to someone, he is
alone in his bunker.. ;)

He probably forgot about Baltic states. ;)

We are speding a lot of money for propaganda in Baltic states, he knows that :(

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, alexander!

On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 09:39:13 +0300 alexander koryagin writes:

The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West ally. That is reality.

I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as well and they are not russian nationalists.
--- Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux)
* Origin: Somewhere in the North (2:4500/1.59)

Hello, Ghil!

Monday January 17 2022 00:08, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

All interested sides want a war: Ukraine wants to re-establish control
on those lands it de facto doesn't control. USA wants to use Ukraine
to weaken Russia. Russia wants a rematch, maybe an excuse to invade

USA wants weak Russia under Putin's control.
This situation suits them best.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Zhenja Kaliuta!
I read your message from 17.01.2022 14:33


ak>> The Ukraine nationalists decided assimilate millions of Russian
people living in Ukraine. They want them to consider themselves
Ukrainians rather than Russians. The new language law prohibits using
the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West likes
it, because it doesn't like Russians in general. And if somebody, even a criminal, does anything against Russians he automatically becomes a West
ally. That is reality.

ZK> I know a bunch of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine, they do not
have problems with Russian. No, they have no problems with Ukranian as
well and they are not russian nationalists.

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

Bye, Zhenja!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 18 2022 09:08, you wrote to Zhenja Kaliuta:

the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but the West

I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian language at all. Even in bars :)

In Russia you cannot use any other language except Russian to pass state exams (EGE).
So people from Tatarstan will tell that Russia is also pushing down languages of ethnic minorities.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 11:19

ak>> the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
ak>> the West
DP> I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
DP> language at all. Even in bars:)

The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.
It will be according the law.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 18 2022 12:59, you wrote to me:

the Russian language even in beer bars(!). Its shame, but
the West

I've been in Kiev recently and had no problems with my Russian
language at all. Even in bars:)

The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught speaking Russian.

No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian only.

It will be according the law.

No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer in Russian.
It's absolutely the same in Russia. You can expect barman in Osetia to know Russian language. He cannot say to you that he don't speak Russian and force you to switch to Osetian.



Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine who
don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

May be. But there are millions of other Russian people in Ukraine
who don't feel so comfortable when somebody force them to be
Ukrainians.

You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still think in
terms of military conquering and invading other countries ....

This is the 21st century Nazism is gone, Communism is gone ... or so I thought.

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ghil!

Tuesday January 18 2022 08:27, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of

NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by stopping the war.
It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
Who was going to stop those massacres instead of NATO? Santa Claus?
Look at the Syria - civil war is still going on, millions of refugees abroad cannot return because they know that they will be prosecuted by Asad regime. And compare with Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. No war, no fighting..

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Ghil,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Dmitry,

Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

More people died during Battle for Berlin on German side than in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

Do you think that we should be blamed for that?

Correct ... today's generations are not to be blamed for the past.

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday January 18 2022 15:42, you wrote to me:

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage still
had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody else,
a thing often overlooked in the west.

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Dmitry,

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

We must stay away from nuclears.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point of view.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday January 18 2022 16:04, you wrote to me:

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

We must stay away from nuclears.

WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military point
of view.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Dmitry,

WWII was a disaster even without nuclear bombs.

We know who caused it, not your country and certainly not mine.

Even Hiroshima and Nagasaki were totally useless from a military
point of view.

No, Japan surrended very soon after the bombing. They were shocked.

They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would expire.

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ward!

Tuesday January 18 2022 16:28, you wrote to me:

They were shocked but didn't need to be conquered. They were not an
active military force anymore, hardly any navy, hardly any air force
and as they were on an island an irrelevant land army as long as you didn't invade.

They had enough forces to kill million of american troops during months long battles.
Just look at the Berlin were most powerfull army in the world lost 80 000 soldiers.
Single city!

They could easily have been isolated from the rest of the world by a blockade with as good as no loss of troops ... They had no natural resources, no oil, no steel, no whatever ... and eventually would
expire.

It was impossible to block access to all Japan. It's really huge.

The US however still had to avenge Pearl Harbor and humiliate the
Japanese ... and show Stalin the atom bomb ... which he was aware of
...

Stalin also tried to take part from Iran and Turkey just after the war. Only invention of nuclear weapon stopped him.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 13:12

ak>> The problems will have Russian bar workers if caught
ak>> speaking Russian.
DP> No, current law says nothing about restrictions for Russian
DP> language in bars. And you will be served while speaking Russian
DP> only.
ak>> It will be according the law.
DP> No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
DP> Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
DP> in Russian.

This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians say that
since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in
English. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:27

ak>>> May be. But there are millions of other Russian people
ak>>> in Ukraine who don't feel so comfortable when somebody
ak>>> force them to be Ukrainians.
WD>> You know, I'm shocked to learn there are regimes that still
WD>> think in terms of military conquering and invading other
WD>> countries .... This is the 21st century Nazism is gone,
WD>> Communism is gone ... or so I thought.
GZ> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
GZ> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
GZ> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
GZ> bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking
adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its ass. ;=)

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 16:40

GZ>> Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
GZ>> 21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
GZ>> 20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic
GZ>> bombings of
DP> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
DP> stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
DP> know anything about Srebrenici?

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 18.01.2022 22:59

DP> But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
DP> of Ukraine. That's the problem.

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of
years before.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 09:15, you wrote to me:

No. According to the law it is required for barman to speak
Ukranian. But if client will ask him in Russian - he can answer
in Russian.

This law is a humiliation of the Russian speaking people in the
Russian speaking areas of Ukraine. It is like some crazy politicians
say that since tomorrow all the bars in Canadian Quebec should serve people in English. ;-)

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in Ukraine without using Ukrainan language.
I did it myself.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in Yugoslavia by
stopping the war. It was a terrible place in the 90s - do you
know anything about Srebrenici?

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:52, you wrote to me:

But Russia wants to make Russian language as official language
of Ukraine. That's the problem.

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds
of years before.

"Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to invade our own neighbors.
And I don't understand what do you mean by saying "live as Russian people".

I have friends in USA who live there as Russian people. So problem so far.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:43, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and eternal pain in its
ass. ;=)

I personally know people who's relatives where killed in Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian terrorist for each killed christian.
And they are very happy that he got what he deserves.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Terry!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:49, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

IMHO, computers made English the default language of the world.

Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi Dmitry,

Only 5% of our citizens speak some English.

Might help explain why 95% are not doing so well :)

Years ago there was a dream for a universal language but when PC's came it seemed to die a death. Maybe I am wrong but I would say English is the most common language used for business after working in many countries in the past.

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)

Hello, Dmitry!

And Dresden ... when I passed there in the 1990-ies the damage
still had not been repaired.

The fire-bombing of Tokyo also killed more people than Nagasaki
and Hiroshima.

And I also believe Russia suffered more casualties than anybody
else, a thing often overlooked in the west.

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would be
much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine , Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, Ward!

Ghil,

Nazism and Communism is gone. But:
21st century Afghanistan, Iraq
20th century: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Vietnam, Atomic bombings
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?

If you want to decently discuss with me, you need to be intellectually honest .... How old are you?

My point is: even in the 19th century people in the Western World though they were civilized and still we had slavery, colonialism, murder and enslavement of the local inhabitants, conquering wars etc.
This will never end.

BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 05:31, you wrote to me:

We've lost about 80k soldiers during Battle for Berlin, it would
be much better to just drop nuclear bomb and save their lives.

It's wrong way of thinking. If a war is about to start (Ukraine ,
Syria etc.) wouldn't be better to drop nuclear bombs from your point
of view to prevent the war? And who's going to decide? Whom do we

I don't see how situation in Ukraine could be compared with Battle for Berlin. Russian just should stop invading neighboring countries and care more about it's own citizens.

entrust such power to drop atomic bombs?

Do you remember our politicians who publicly announced ideas to nuke Turkey and USA?
It's became a new normality in Russia to say such thing.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Ghil,

BTW: I'm 40. Why is this important?

Just curious in the renewal of ideas ... I figured you were one of the younger ones. You made some interesting points ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Dmitry!

I don't see any intention from USA to start any war with us. Not now,
not in nearest future.

But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And, with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 09:24, you wrote to me:

But US could use Ukraine as its "ally" to establish NATO bases. And,

Ukraine had Russian base in Crimea which was used for invasion back in 2014. Sounds like Ukraine is a bit scared about Russia :)

with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones that
would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities. Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

with bases in place, they could host missles, even nuclear ones
that would directly threaten Russia and its defense capabilities.
Shouldn't Russia feel threatened?

Distance from Moscow to Latvian border is almost the same as distance
to Ukrainan border. And actually no one was really worried about that
for many years (Latvia joined NATO in 2003).

Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3
And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Wednesday January 19 2022 10:45, you wrote to me:

Latvia is a lost cause from russian point of view, but they didn't
give up on Ukraine. The pro-russian electorate in Eastern and Southern Ukraine could be decisive in the future.
https://tinyurl.com/28vb6yp3

Eastern Ukraine de-facto is not Ukranian territory anymore.
It's on Russia's payroll and will be our problem for many years to come.

And I think Putin can't deal with the fact that Ukraine is going to
join NATO. Ukraine being what it is (east slavic, common roots) for
Putin it's like a betrayal. Odessa being founded by Russian empress

Poland is also east slavic.

Catherine the Great. Still, too many resentments. And it's more like a

Catherine was not even Russian ;)

matter of russian national pride "not to lose Ukraine". Putin doesn't

So "our pride" is to invade our neighbor and to kill it's soldiers?!

have a vassal in Ukraine like he has in Belarus in the person of Lukashenko. And the mere fact that Ukraine choose americans and NATO instead of russians makes this "betrayal" more bitter.

They've lost Crimea and Donbass, it's like they are going to trust Putin anymore.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:05

DP> I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
DP> So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining
voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also
violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the
situation in Ukraine.

DP> And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
DP> Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian
nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
peacefully together.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:08

DP>>> NATO actually saves thounsands of human lives in
DP>>> Yugoslavia by stopping the war. It was a terrible place
DP>>> in the 90s - do you know anything about Srebrenici?
ak>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
DP> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
speaking areas? ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:09

ak>> A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the
ak>> Russian people in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people,
ak>> as they did for hundreds of years before.
DP> "Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
DP> invade our own neighbors.

You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its
territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So
millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour countries
should be heard.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:46, you wrote to me:

I already told you that we have exactly the same law in Russia.
So we are humilating people who speak Osetian language?

They learned to speak Russian hundreds years ago, while joining voluntarily to Russia. And even in this case the czarist Russia also violated their rights. But it is incompatible by the scale with the situation in Ukraine.

So they have to speak Russian, right? And why do think that Russians in Ukraine can't learn Ukranian?

And as I already told you - it's possible to visit bars in
Ukraine without using Ukrainan language. I did it myself.

I didn't speak about tourists. I told of the Russian people workers in
Russian speaking areas. It is their land. The earlier Ukrainian

Osetia is also land of local people. But they have to speak Russian. And people in all regions of Russia have to use Russian as main language.
You can't even have exams in school in any other language.

nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be able live
peacefully together.

I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until Crimea annexation.

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 19.01.2022 12:43

ak>> You forgot NATO intervention in Lybia. Exactly after that
ak>> fucking adventure Europe got its flow of fugitives and
ak>> eternal pain in its ass. ;=)
DP> I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
DP> Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
DP> terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
DP> that he got what he deserves.

Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about
cristians in Lebanon.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:50, you wrote to me:

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine Russian
speaking areas? ;-)

How it stopped fighting, hm?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:54, you wrote to me:

"Russia" means Putin? Because I don't want our country to
invade our own neighbors.

You are young. It was one country, the USSR. And the division of its

USSR was a pretty nasty place, I am very happy that it doesn't exists anymore. It was bad everyone.

territory after the divorce was very chaotic, unlawful and unjust. So

Even the creation on USSR was bloody, unlawful and unjust.

millions of Russian people who suddenly appeared in neighbour
countries should be heard.

Yeah, like french people in Algeria? :)

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 20 2022 16:59, you wrote to me:

I personally know people who's relatives where killed in
Lebanon in 80s because Gaddafi was paying to palestinian
terrorist for each killed christian. And they are very happy
that he got what he deserves.

Just read about the Sabra and Shatila massacre to learn more about cristians in Lebanon.

That happened after 7 years of war against Palestinian Liberation Organization, armed by Soviet Union and trained at Perevalnoe Training Center-165 in Crimea.
They actually took Lebanon as a hostage in their war against the Israel.


Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:50

ak>> nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
ak>> able live peacefully together.
DP> I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
DP> Crimea annexation.

No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev. Until
then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

ak>>>> A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)
DP>>> So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.
ak>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
ak>> Russian speaking areas?;-)
DP> How it stopped fighting, hm?

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no
Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers
also participated.

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the
Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories
back.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 21 2022 09:08, you wrote to me:

nationalists understand it the sooner two nations will be
able live peacefully together.

I think we were living quite peacefully for many years. Until
Crimea annexation.

No -- until the Ukrainian ultra-natinalists came to power in Kiev.

As I already told you - I had no problems in Kiev with my Russian language. So I don't see why ultra-nationalists in fact did nothing to prevent me and other people speak most of the time :)
Have you been to Ukraine youself in recent year?

Until then there was a sober policy which respected all nations living
in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest thing possible.

Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 21 2022 09:18, you wrote to me:

How it stopped fighting, hm?

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple --

Russian invaded Crimea officially! Using it's base as a tool.

Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our
volunteers also participated.

Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK. Situation changed.
Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine stopped fighting only in 1957?

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
territories back.

We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with people
without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and some our volunteers also participated.

As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17 ... July 17 2014 ... neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide them.

I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey, Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc ... that do as they please under the guise of national interest.

It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass region, and
we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.

I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is, even has to "capture" its own territory.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Å∩Γ¡¿µá 21 ƒ¡óáα∩ 2022 09:18, Γδ »¿ßá½(á) Dmitry Protasoff, ó ß««íΘÑ¡¿¿ »« ßßδ½¬Ñ area://fidonews?msgid=2:5075/128.130+860951ad:

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 20.01.2022 16:58

A Russian NATO's advocate. ;=)

So who was going to stop that war? Name someone, please.

So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in Ukraine
Russian speaking areas?;-)

How it stopped fighting, hm?

we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
territories back.

Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine. According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to "recapture" the territories back.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:07

ak>> Until then there was a sober policy which respected all
ak>> nations living in the country. Nationalism is an ugliest
ak>> thing possible.
DP> Nationalism is a just a normal policy for multiple conutries.

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above others.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 10:08

ak>> Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only with
ak>> people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
ak>> some our volunteers also participated.
DP> Now they are getting quite modern weapons from the US and UK.
DP> Situation changed. Do you remember that partisans in Ukraine
DP> stopped fighting only in 1957?

Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan
ak>> border at the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now
ak>> occuping Dombass region, and we are the only force that
ak>> prevents Kiev from capturing the territories back.
DP> We are sending people and military equipment to Donbass.



Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 21.01.2022 12:54

ak>> It is correct that Russia didn't drop a single bomb on Ukraine and
ak>> no Russian planes ever bombed Ukrainian troops. Explanation is
ak>> simple -- Ukrainian troops and nationalist units can fight only
ak>> with people without weapon. We just helped them with weapon and
ak>> some our volunteers also participated.

WD> As with the shootdown of Malaysian Airlines MH17... July 17 2014...
WD> neither had surface-to-air missiles and NATO did "not" provide
WD> them.

Bad accidents often happen during wars. For instance, you can read about multiple cases of friendly fire. War is a crime by itself.
Especially such accidents are probable when people for a long time have
no a real war practice. Your probably read how Ukraine shot down a
Russian passenger plain in 2001. BTW it refused from the responsibility, although evidences were 100 times more obvious then in the MH17 case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

WD> I'm amazed that Russia keeps denying its involvement. It places
WD> itself among other rogue nations such as USA, China, Turkey,
WD> Myanmar, 80% of Africa, Saudi-Arabia, etc... that do as they please
WD> under the guise of national interest.

ak>> It it correct that Russian troops are now near Ukrainan border at
ak>> the Russian side. It is a lie that we are now occuping Dombass
ak>> region, and we are the only force that prevents Kiev from
ak>> capturing the territories back.

WD> I find it strange that an autonomous country, which Ukraine is,
WD> even has to "capture" its own territory.

Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and
assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it. Well, Russia
helps Russian people in Dombass, but Russian troops -- that's correct --
still are on the Russian side of the border.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

One day we need to share a beer ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 09:27, you wrote to me:

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.

Agressive "anything" is the core reason of all troubles.

When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for school exams? :)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 09:30, you wrote to me:

Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans. ;-)

As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment - just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some geopolitican reasons :)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 22.01.2022 16:23

ak>>>> So why they condemn Russia who stops fighting in
ak>>>> Ukraine Russian speaking areas?;-)
DP>>> How it stopped fighting, hm?
ak>> we are the only force that prevents Kiev from capturing the
ak>> territories back.
GZ> Ukraine holds sovereignty over all the territory of Ukraine.
GZ> According to international law Ukraine has all the rights to
GZ> "recapture" the territories back.

The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed
Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the
right to return its lost territories back.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 10:11, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic, Yugoslavia also had the

But who was going to stop civil war?

right to return its lost territories back.

"Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 24 2022 10:18, you wrote to Lee Lofaso:

Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a balanced position on this account. That why everything was peaceful when
Yanukovich was in power.

Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.



Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Aggressive nationalism is the core reason of all troubles after WWII.
When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation is above
others.

One day we need to share a beer ...

I'll drink to that.




..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

One day we need to share a beer ...

I'll drink to that.

With you too ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never allow it.

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that "there should be
no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak
ukrainian will be used as a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into
the great russian:

You guys are all idiots.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

It could be the other way around! Many russians say that: "there
are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people" and that
"there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin said it:
"Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so called
ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that
many russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as
a tool to assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:

You guys are all idiots.

I'm not russian.
But in the recent Article by Vladimir Putin "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians".
Read his speech:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181
A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in Europe".
This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians believe. If he believes that russians and ukrainians were a whole: quote "I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people - a single whole." Maybe he wishes to "repair wrongdoing". If he thinks he was "chosen" for this "mission" and the people and the army support him we could have a russian invasion of the Eastern Ukraine (in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).
Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

(in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need to
reconquer what is already Ukraine;

2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
is "never" the answer.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

(in case Ukraine decides to reconquer Donbass).

1) The territorial entity of Ukraine is known; Ukraine does not need
to
reconquer what is already Ukraine;

2) The Donbass-matter can only be solved by political negotiations. Violence
is "never" the answer.

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians? Lavrov and Blinken concluded the talks. They just decided its fate. And Zelensky is not acting by himself.

2. This issue won't be solved peacefully. Just like it started. And I am merely an observer.
From Zelensky's today speech: "We have learned to deter and counter external aggression quite effectively. I am convinced that the time has come to move to offensive actions to defend our national interests. You have the experience and ability to implement such a strategy. Intelligence, the ability to generate unconventional solutions to acute problems, the courage and dedication of every intelligence officer should remain effective tools used for the benefit of our state"
https://tinyurl.com/yvkfpw29 https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/zovnishnya-rozvidka-vidigraye-vazhlivu-rol-u-protidiyi-zagro-72517
And UK is also withdrawing embassy staff and families from Kiev. That means the war could reach as far as Kiev. Russians allways spoke of "Kiev as the 'mother of Russian cities'.
Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the fate
of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

Yes.

BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, Ward!

1. Don't you find odd that russians and americans are deciding the
fate of Ukraine and not ukrainians?

Yes.

BTW, please remind us here who started this and on what pre-text.

Really, I thought that the military invasion of one country by another
was something of the past, maybe only in totalitarian regimes with dictators.

Another Russian economical debacle in the making ...

But it's happening right here and right now. And it's true that russian opinion of Ukraine is as its own backyard. And at the same time the americans are arming ukrainians. There will be blood! And nothing you nor I can do about it.
After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:04

ak>> When some fucking politics invent ideas that their nation
ak>> is above others.
DP> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
DP> school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi! Ward,

On 25 Jan 22 09:46, you wrote to Ghil Zvidgzul:

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need. The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia. No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

Cheers,
Paul.

... Do not open tagline. No user-serviceable parts inside.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny-side up on the desktop (3:640/1384)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:05

ak>> Now apply it to the Russian Dombass partisans.;-)
DP> As long as Russia pays them.. Next time you hear that some
DP> Russian child dies because of lack of money for his treatment -
DP> just be proud that we are supporting those quasi states for some
DP> geopolitican reasons:)

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was
100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:28, you wrote to me:

That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia for
school exams?:)

You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs to stop
being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same language law as Russia? :)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:14

ak>> The USA and NATO forgot about international laws when they
ak>> bombed Yugoslavia, although, according your logic,
ak>> Yugoslavia also had the
DP> But who was going to stop civil war?
ak>> right to return its lost territories back.
DP> "Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but
very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:32, you wrote to me:

The death toll in Dombass is already above 14000. And hundreds of them
are children killed by Ukrain troops. In Leningrad the death toll was

War is always a disaster. But i don't see that people in Russia are unhappy because Russian air forces in Syria killed a lot of children.

100 times higher. But there was reason why they fought.

We had our own Chechnya. A disaster created by ourselves.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:34, you wrote to me:

"Yugoslavia" means serbs ony? What about croats?

You are blind and deaf when you speak about Russians in Ukraine, but

I talk to Russians in Ukraine every single day multiple times. They are my colleagues, but not brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia. ;-)

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs to keep Yugoslavia alive?


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 10:21

ak>> Ukraine was divide in two part. Its former president held a
ak>> balanced position on this account. That why everything was
ak>> peaceful when Yanukovich was in power.
DP> Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that situation
who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the peaceful
agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 11:06

ak>> Two nations have a war in Ukraine. One nation wants to
ak>> dominate and assimilate another. Another nation will never
ak>> allow it.
GZ> It could be the other way around! Many russians say that:
GZ> "there are no ukrainians, they are a part of russian people"
GZ> and that "there should be no Ukraine on the map". Even Putin
GZ> said it: "Russians and Ukrainians were one people". Maybe the so
called
GZ> ukrainian language question is just an excuse and the fact that many
GZ> russians in Ukraine refuse to speak ukrainian will be used as a
tool to
GZ> assimilate ukrainian language into the great russian:
GZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Russian_language

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian at
home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution
is to preserve both the languages and make the country with areas that
speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all
people living in the country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 12:47, you wrote to me:

Killing people on the streets is not very peacefull behavior.

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 24.01.2022 18:41

GZ> A quote: "Russians, Ukrainians, and Belarusians are all
GZ> descendants of Ancient Rus, which was the largest state in
GZ> Europe". This is what he (Putin) and the majority of russians
GZ> believe.

Historically it is true. There were never such countries as Ukraine and Belarus. They always were parts of either Poland or Russia, when Poland
itself became a part of Russia. But it was long ago.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:30

DP>>> That's why you can use only Russian language in Russia
DP>>> for school exams?:)
ak>> You can go to West bank and Gaza strip and offer the Arabs
ak>> to stop being aggressive and start learning Hebrew. ;=)
DP> West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
DP> understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
DP> language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can
speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from Ukraine
speak Russian.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:17, you wrote to me:

West bank is a pretty calm place, BTW. But I still do not
understand why your so unhappy that Ukraine will have the same
language law as Russia?:)

Because of the scale and history. The largest language minority in
Russia is Tatar. In Russia 150 million people and only 4 of them can

But why Tatars can't use their own language for school exams?

speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came from
Ukraine speak Russian.

Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force Ukranians speak Russian.
It was impossible to live in Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 12:41

ak>> very cute when speaking about Croats in Serbia.;-)
DP> You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
DP> but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
DP> Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
DP> to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On
the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks Russian
at home and consider it as a native language. So the only possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the country with
areas that speak different languages. Like Switzerland, Canada,
Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in the country.

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because russian would dominate. In all areas. If we would apply the same logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140 mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people today speak english instead of irish.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Tuesday January 25 2022 13:29, you wrote to me:

You told me that NATO did some terrible things in Yugoslavia
but I don't see your opinion what was the way to stop the war.
Kill as many croats as possible by air strikes and allow serbs
to keep Yugoslavia alive?

It is a mistake to think that Croats killed less people than Serbs. On

Civil was is always a disaster. And NATO stopped that war. Croatia, Serbia and other former republics now live peacefully.
Wthout NATO this bloodshed was going to continue for many years.

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with Serbs
population which was either killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

helped Croats? -- it is easy they were more untirussian, even in WWII.
;-)

All I know is that I can now visit Croatia and Serbia (and I did this 4 years ago), there is no war there.
And average salary in Croatia is higher than in Russia :)

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, Dmitry!

The Ukrainian ultra-nationalists were the only people in that
situation who didn't want the situation would end peacefully (the
peaceful agreement had been already achieved), and the status quo
was preserved.

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had such power over Yanukovych?

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, Ghil!

Tuesday January 25 2022 10:44, you wrote to me:

The whole story started from Ukrainan's will to sign Association
Agreement with EU, something that Putin was not going to accept.

Why didn't Yanukovych sign the agreement in November 2013? Putin had
such power over Yanukovych?

We know nothing about their personal relations..

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:37


ak>> The situation must be simplified. A half of Ukrainians speaks
ak>> Russian at home and consider it as a native language. So the only
ak>> possible solution is to preserve both the languages and make the
ak>> country with areas that speak different languages. Like
ak>> Switzerland, Canada, Belgium etc. Such a solution is not the end
ak>> of the country, but just showing respect to all people living in
ak>> the country.

GZ> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ> russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

GZ> If we would apply the same
GZ> logic to the other ex-USSR countries, let's say Estonia, there are
GZ> less that 1 mln. estonian speakers. Russia has a population of 140
GZ> mln. And if we had russian as official language because there were
GZ> 475.000 russians in Estonia in 1991, then in 20 years estonian
GZ> language would have died. The same way the majority of irish people
GZ> today speak english instead of irish.

Well, Estonians can make a law that every Estonian should know Estonian.
But why Russian children in Estonia should study in Russian schools in Estonian only? You know perfectly well, that if you have a difficulty in understanding a certain thing reading it in your native language, you
will never understand it better studying it a foreign language. So in
Estonian schools should be lessons of Estonian, but certainly Russian
children there should be taught other subjects in the language of their choice.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:32

ak>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
ak>> Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
ak>> 1995. Why NATO
DP> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Wednesday January 26 2022 10:12, you wrote to me:

the territory of modern Croatia there were big areas with
Serbs population which was either killed or expelled in
1995. Why NATO

But do you know what happended before the 1995?
And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in 1991?

It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious -- the
ultra- nationalist are to blame here too.

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they
intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for centuries!

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it into a military conflict.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello, alexander!

Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
russian would dominate. In all areas.

Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A human
nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he will do
the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we would make russian official then they would have one more excuse not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used for
centuries!

I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100 years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their own republics and created their own literary languages.
If I would be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much? They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!
Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

On 25/01/2022 18:46, Ward Dossche : Ghil Zvidgzul wrote:

Ghil,

After US and UK, Australia is withdrawing embassy staff from Kiev.

Australia will do whatever its US overlords tell it to do.

1/ Any country with balls would "not" withdraw embassy staff. As a staffer
   I'd even refuse to leave (and had I been that Ryanair pilot, I wouldn't
   have landed in Minsk

2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

Too late! The Kiwis have already invaded Australia.


--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)

On 25/01/2022 19:24, Paul Quinn : Ward Dossche wrote:

 WD>> 2/ Australia is thinking about invading New Zealand soon.

No need.  The Australian Constitution already provides for the incorporation of New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia.  No hassles, although they do have to agree first... a minor sticking point.

:)

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbi
* Origin: Stanthorpe, Qld (3:640/305)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 10:17

ak>>>> the territory of modern Croatia there were big
ak>>>> areas with Serbs population which was either
ak>>>> killed or expelled in 1995. Why NATO
DP>>> But do you know what happended before the 1995?
DP>>> And how croats were expelled from Serbian Krajina in
DP>>> 1991?
ak>> It's useless to count the score now. One thing is obvious
ak>> -- the ultra- nationalists are to blame here too.
DP> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations
when some fucking guys clench power with a dead grip, and they refuse to
give up power at any price. A building becomes unreconstructable prison,
and the only way out is to blow it up all and build a new building. I
like how it happen in Romania. ;-)

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 11:08

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian --
ak>> so, hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian
ak>> language) there. But they intrude in the areas where the
ak>> Russian language was used for centuries!
WD> The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
WD> historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
WD> into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 26.01.2022 13:44

GZ>>> Showing respect, would endanger the ukrainian language. Because
GZ>>> russian would dominate. In all areas.

ak>> Compulsion is the most worst scenario in cultivating anything. A
ak>> human nature of a free person doesn't tolerate compulsion, and he
ak>> will do the opposite. And more hate will arise in the society.

GZ> I will make it more simple: in USSR, if there were 5 estonians and
GZ> 1 russian in a room, they will all switch to russian because
GZ> russians didn't need to learn the languages of the republics. If we
GZ> would make russian official then they would have one more excuse
GZ> not to learn ukrainian/estonian etc. That would make compulsory for
GZ> everybody to learn and speak russian. Putin is using russian
GZ> speakers in ex-soviet republics in his own interest.

You should see how it has been done in the civilized countries, that's
all. Take for instance the prosperous Switzerland. They don't fuck each
other brains on the account of languages. Another matter is that unltra-nationalists as a rule don't respect people of another nations.

ak>> In Ukraine there are areas where people speak Ukrainian -- so,
ak>> hold a popularization campaign (of the Ukrainian language) there.
ak>> But they intrude in the areas where the Russian language was used
ak>> for centuries!

GZ> I don't know what centuries are you talking about? The last 100
GZ> years after USSR was formed? Or before that? Do you think the
GZ> Moscow dialect which is the basis of the modern Russian literary
GZ> language and spread in Russian Empire was spoken in the Wild Plains
GZ> of Ukraine? This "russian language" you think today was spoken by
GZ> russians in the past, in fact appeared in 18th century with the
GZ> modernization reforms of Peter the Great. The other local and

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas
as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

GZ> peasant's dialects have all but dissapeared except little russian
GZ> (ukrainian) and white russian (belarusian) because they had their
GZ> own republics and created their own literary languages. If I would
GZ> be russian and knew that russians, ukrainians and belarusians have
GZ> common roots and spoke the same langauge 1000 years ago or I knew
GZ> that russian and ukrainian are dialects of the same language then
GZ> it would be no big deal to switch to ukrainian. Why is Putin
GZ> speaking of the same origin of russians and ukrainians and at the
GZ> same time russians in Ukraine despise ukrainian language so much?
GZ> They had more than 30 years to learn ukrainian!

Just imagine another situation. Suppose that in 2014 Russian
east-ukrainian ultra-nationalists came to power in Kiev, and they
declared Russian to be the only eligible language in a unilateral Russian-speaking Ukraine. Then partisans would fight in western Ukraine,
and we see the reversed situation. ;-)
The matter is not who can learn another language. The matter is in
violation of freedoms and customs of people that formed for centuries. Especially it is dangerous when two nations divide one country.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English is
also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been Russian.

3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine, Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate. Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s.
Not to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those cossacks - as little russians.
For an english speaker who doesn't know better it could look russian: https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
But we both know this is ukrainian.
The lands of Don Cossacks and Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33 (Holodomor).
Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

Hello, alexander!

Thursday January 27 2022 08:45, you wrote to me:

I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much better.

Political views of course are another reason for civil wars, but these
wars always move history forward. The main problem are the situations

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

Best regards,
dp.

--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Alexander,

The world has been laughing and wondering about Belgium and its
historic and on-going language crisis ... we never turned it
into a military conflict.

May be it can happen when one ultra-nationalists will want to assimilate another. ;-)

What you can notice here is that people don't really give a fuck about that language... it's just a language. Massive floods in July killed a pile of people and destroyed hundreds of homes ... the solidarity from the other language-community was impressive ... more help than the government managed to offer.

What we notice is that the langauge-border is also an economical border with opportunities lacking "on the other side" and it is 'that' which causes the uneasyness. So I'm assuming in Ukraine it is somewhat the same ... it's about opportunities for business, to find jobs, to provide a future for a family ... opportunities which are lacking in one of the regions.

This is something that could be handled by the EU if Ukraine were to join because the EU recognizes special needs of regions separate from what the country-borders are ... there are support programmes especially for that purpose ...

It's not bout Ukraine being governed from Brussels, it remains autonomous but about the opportunity to tap into resources which are available and develop itself ... that is totally different from a system where an individual in a palace in Moscow decides for himself what is good ...

The best tool to eliminate hostility and to prevent wars, is to promote trade and economic processes, that's exactly why the foundation of the EU was laid way back when ... to prevent historical foes Germany and France to launch yet another WW debacle once the dust had settled ... and it seems it worked. No more wars between the EU members ever since its creation.

I'm young enough to remember Soviet troops invading Hungary, Czechoslvakia, Poland ... every time with troops coming from far in the east having no clue what was up and brainwashed thinking they were on a liberation mission or exercises having no idea in which country they were.

If you go to Budapest, there still are the buildings with battle-damage from the 1956 uprising ... Hungarians decided to keep it as a reminder ... I can't believe Russians will want to repeat history and think you can solve a thing by military interventions ... that goes as well for the USA btw.

War is good for business, all kinds of tools are developed to kill people and why buy them if you can't use them, right? Armies are also a way to hide unemployment ... if you're too dumb or too lazy to get a job, go into the armed forces, they provide meals home clothing and a salary .... In the middle ages and after the kings had mercenaries to carry-out their dirty business, that has not changed. That's not the way to go ... if you see the cost that goes into armies like the USA, Russia, China ... that money is more than enough to eradicate hunger and poverty in the whole world, even on Antarctica.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 26 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 10:14

ak>> If you dig so deep you will find that the modern form of English
ak>> is also young. But the truth is that for 3 hundred years, at
ak>> least, such areas as Kharkov region, Dombass, Crimea have been
ak>> Russian.

GZ> 3 hundred years ago Kharkov was the center of Sloboda Ukraine,
GZ> Donbass was on the ukrainian Wild Fields (Dikoye Polye) populated
GZ> by Zaporozhian Cossacks and Crimea was part of Crimean Khanate.
GZ> Crimea was incorporated into the Russian Empire in the 1780s. Not
GZ> to forget that Kuban Cossacks spoke an Ukrainian dialect used by
GZ> the Black Sea Cossacks who moved to the Kuban in 1792. The language
GZ> spoken by them "Balachka" was classified as a dialect of the Little
GZ> Russian language(ukrainian) in pre-revolutionary Russia and those
GZ> cossacks - as little russians. For an english speaker who doesn't
GZ> know better it could look russian:
GZ> https://tinyurl.com/7hpm2s2v
GZ> But we both know this is ukrainian. The lands of Don Cossacks and
GZ> Kuban were depopulated as a result of Soviet famine of 1932-33
GZ> (Holodomor). Ghil.

Well, let's leave the history alone -- historians often were not
unbiassed, and wrote their works according orders from the current
authority, or according own perverted understanding.

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in Ukraine
still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept anything
unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will
be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and fight back and
will make a running nose to the offender.

In other words, if Ukrainian nationlists thought about Russian part of population in Ukraine as a weak person - it was a gross mistake. And
they should learn a wise Chinese saying -- don't start a war if you
unsure you can win. Both parts of Ukraine are strong and they must live peacefully and respect each other.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 27.01.2022 15:16

DP>>> I don't think that communists or Ghaddafi were any much
DP>>> better.
ak>> Political views of course are another reason for civil
ak>> wars, but these wars always move history forward. The main
ak>> problem are the situations
DP> I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
DP> Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know
that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no
proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life in
Lybia was not bad as it is now.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 25.01.2022 13:20

ak>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
ak>> from Ukraine speak Russian.
DP> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
DP> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
DP> Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be offended
by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make and accept
anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow to be offended and
fight back and will make a running nose to the offender.

How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin or bolsheviks for that): https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt
You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian). Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic Ukrainians.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 28 2022 09:57, you wrote to me:

I don't see how Ghaddafi's war to create Islamic State in
Africa was a way forward. Are you sure about that?

An Islamic state is not the same to "Islamic terrorist state". I know

Military destruction of several African states to create delusional Great Islamic State of the Sahel - was ok for you?

that one plane bombing was imputed to Ghaddafi, but IMHO there was no

Do you know anything about Islamic Legion which was used by Ghaddafi for that task?

proper investigation. If we take the late time Ghaddafi's Lybia I can
sure say -- to the world it was the safest Islamic country. And life

Do you know that Ghaddafi was even paying to Australian aboriginals to create terrorists cells in Australia?

in Lybia was not bad as it is now.

You cannot rape minds of the whole generations for many years and expect country to became some normal country after that.
I know Lybian guy who still remembers how he was warching public hangings on Lybian TV as a child where people were agonizing hanging on the ropes and Huda Amer (very famous Lybian politican, Benghazi major later in her life under Ghaddafi's rule) was pulling legs of some guy with screams that he deserve that.

Do you still pro-Ghaddafi? May be you also think that Stalin's mass purges were ok for our country?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hello, alexander!

Friday January 28 2022 10:41, you wrote to me:

speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people that came
from Ukraine speak Russian.

Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in Soviet
Union without at least some knowledge of Russian language.

Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.

I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for Ukraine as we have in Russia?
Because you are Russian nationalists?

Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

Hi, Ghil Zvidgzul!
I read your message from 28.01.2022 12:20

ak>> Let's make the situation with the Russian language oppression in
ak>> Ukraine still more simpler -- a weak person (nation) can be
ak>> offended by a strong person. He can force a weak person to make
ak>> and accept anything unpleasant, a rape including. But if instead
ak>> of a weak person there will be a strong person he will not allow
ak>> to be offended and fight back and will make a running nose to the
ak>> offender.

GZ> How is russian language opressed? Zelenski, ukrainian president, is
GZ> speaking russian most of the time, and sometimes he switches to
GZ> ukrainian on TV. I saw footages on youtube from ukrainian front
GZ> where ukrainian soldiers were speaking russian and at the same time
GZ> they want Ukraine to be whole again. Most of the soldiers if they
GZ> are from eastern part of the country speak russian and at the same
GZ> time they hate separatists so much. But this is because of
GZ> russification. And here is a map from 1914 (you can't blame Lenin
GZ> or bolsheviks for that):

https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet.
Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common with languages.
It is the map of dialects of the Russain language across Russia, but the Ukrainian language is not a dialect. The map tells how Russian language
was distorted on different part of Russia. And in Ukraine of course it
has the influence of the Ukraine and Polish languages. The author
exactly told about dialects of the Russian language.

GZ> You see in Kuban and Donbass they spoke ukrainian (little russian).
GZ> Ukrainians in the Donbass were affected by the 1932-'33 Holodomor
GZ> famine and the Russification policy of Joseph Stalin. As most
GZ> ethnic Ukrainians were rural peasant farmers, the majority of those
GZ> who died during the famine in the Ukrainian SSR were ethnic
GZ> Ukrainians.

It is a propaganda -- in that famine killed people many nations, Russian including. It is a lie to say that it was only Ukrainians. Volga region
was effected not less than part of Ukraine.

Bye, Ghil!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 28.01.2022 13:49

ak>>>> speak the Tartar language (2.5%). All the people
ak>>>> that came from Ukraine speak Russian.
DP>>> Because Russia/Soviet Union tried several times to force
DP>>> Ukranians speak Russian. It was impossible to live in
DP>>> Soviet Union without at least some knowledge of Russian
DP>>> language.
ak>> Read my answer to Ghil about a strong and a weak persons.
DP> I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
DP> Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
DP> nationalists?

I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably have the
right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern and southern
parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal in this
question, and when somebody orders any people to speak different
language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in Ukraine be
happy to start speak Ukrainian there will be no Crimea separation and
Dombass war.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Hello, alexander!

https://tinyurl.com/bdeh8azt

On the market you try to sell in your sack a dog instead of a piglet. Govori (or dialects) (the map is govori map) has nothing in common
with languages. It is the map of dialects of the Russain language

In 1914 in Russian Empire that was exactly how the russian language was divided by the linguists into: Great Russian, Little Russian and White Russian (each with it's own 'govory'). Little Russian (ukrainian) was spoken exactly where the map shows. Ukrainian(litte russian) and Belarus (white russian) weren't even considered languages but merely dialects of the russian language.
In fact in Moscow and Vladivostok today they speak exactly the same language because the spoken form of the "Russian language" which is Moscovian dialect/Standard Russian was that of the nobility and bourgeoise in the Russian empire. Peasant's speech was not studied and after the Russian Revolution rapidly declined and dissapeared.

Ghil.
--- -Ç óδ íδ ¿ß¬πßßΓó«¼ ºá¡∩½¿ß∞. Å«øº¿Ñ⌐, τΓ« ½¿?
* Origin: îπαáó∞¿¡δ¼ ß»¿αΓ«¼ ß«óÑΓπε ¡áΓÑαÑΓ∞ (2:5030/1081.117)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Sunday January 30 2022 16:58, you wrote to me:

I still don't get why you don't want the same language law for
Ukraine as we have in Russia? Because you are Russian
nationalists?

I say it once more -- Ukraine is divided in two parts, and it was
always obvious. Western Ukrainians hate Russians and they probably

I've been there and no one around hated me.

have the right not to learn Russian. As well as Russians in eastern

"Right no to learn Russian" - that's funny!

and southern parts have right not to speak Ukrainian. They are equal

Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some ethnic group.

in this question, and when somebody orders any people to speak
different language it violates their freedom. If Russian people in

So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to speak Russian?


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)

BY: alexander koryagin(2:5075/128.130)

A lie is a bad thing. Russia supports the right of the Russian people
in eastern Ukraine live as Russian people, as they did for hundreds of years before.

Boundary lines change. Such as the United States inheriting territory. Unfortunately Biden is literally Putin's puppet more than the left in the United States thinking Trump was Putin's puppet.
--- WWIV 5.5.1.3261
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

Hi, Dmitry Protasoff!
I read your message from 30.01.2022 17:57

DP> Why? In Russia everyone have to speak Russian. Even those
DP> people who were heavily prosecuted because they part of some
DP> ethnic group.
ak>> in this question, and when somebody orders any people to
ak>> speak different language it violates their freedom. If
ak>> Russian people in
DP> So a guy in Osetia have no freedom because he is forced to
DP> speak Russian?

It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect
to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and Ukrainians
in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the person who must be called an Ukrainian?

The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke
Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the
Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the Ossetian
people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their
small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian was from
them, and it was their decision.

Bye, Dmitry!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.fidonews,local.cc.ak 2022
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

*** Answering a msg posted in area carbonArea (Carbon Area).

Hello, alexander!

Monday January 31 2022 09:26, you wrote to me:

It depends how much people are against the order. it is very incorrect

"Order" is not something we have in Russia ;)

to compare Russians via Ossetians in Russia and Russians and
Ukrainians in the present-day Ukraine. Beside this -- who is the
person who must be called an Ukrainian?

I know some of them. Nice people, BTW!

The situation would be similar in one case: if Ossetian people spoke Ossetian language and suddenly Russian authority issued an order for
them to speak Russian. Russia has never issued such order, even in the

It was like this, in fact.

Tsarist time -- it happened historically, without orders - the
Ossetian people understood that it is useless to isolate themselves in their small territory. In other words the initiative to speak Russian
was from them, and it was their decision.

No, they were forced to do it. Just ask anyone from Osetia - are they ok to use they native language for school exams?


Best regards,
dp.
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: No rest for the wicked (2:5001/100.1)