Well, indeed, the strategy of the tiger to gobble up a goat in one piece
has failed. I believe the next one it will be to gnaw its rump. ;)

Good idea.. ;)

Of course there are no nazi's in Ukraine. That was all just
propaganda for the citizens of Russia to support with the invasion,
or "special military operation" as some like to call it.

Uhu, look at the tatu of captured mariupol angels: https://newsofrussia.ru/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/azvostal.jpg

This is what "News of Russia" publishes? You might want to look elsewhere.

Sounds a lot like your "provocative woman" story.

Russian troops are not able to do even now, for a while.

Of course not. There is nothing in Ukraine for Russia.

There is Russian people in Ukraine. ;-)

Those people are Ukrainian.

The people of Ukraine elected Zelensky. That was their choice. Did
the people of Russia elect Putin? I don't think so.

Elections in nowadays is a very funny process, even in America. ;-)

The people of Ukraine elected Zelensky, did they not?

But suppose a situation when some fucking Nazi approach to you and shout "Glory Ukraine" and you must shout "Glory to Heroes" the only way to
keep yourself safe.

You could simply stay in your own country.

Russians in Ukraine will say themselves who are they want to be
free of.

There is a fairly basic flaw in your statement. Do you see it?

I don't see it. If Arabs in Palestine hate Israel occupants the world
see it perfectly well. So we see the true position of the Russian people
in Ukraine soon too, especially in southern and eastern Ukraine.

I agree.

As you see it from your American divan. ;-)

I also see you from my American divan.

But it is not a Russia aim to "destroy homes, families and lives". There
is no logic and any sense in that. Ukraine had all means to solve the problems without fighting with Russia.

Ukraine never fought with Russia. Never made any threats to fight with Russia. Russia in invaded Ukraine and proceeded to destroy homes, families and lives.

Even today it continues.

But I repeat that Ukrainian nationalists hated Russia so much that any
concessions from them had been impossible for 8 years. And now they are >impossible while an clown-actor stays as a president, who plays it as
in a movie.

What concessions do you hope for from Ukraine? You won't be getting any.

What do you think Russian troops would have done to Ukrainian people if
they allowed Russian troops enter freely? Fighting with Russia was a
crazy idea for Zelensky and irreconcilable nationalists and a big part
of the calamity lay on them. Who is guilty more -- people will say it later.

They would have killed Zelensky (they tried serveral times) and installed a puppet government. It would have gone beyond that to what point I am not sure.

Why should the Ukrainian people allow Russian troops enter freely? Would Russia allow Ukrainian troops to enter freely?

You blame Zelensky, a man who was just elected in 2019 but as you
told me yourself Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and has been
supporting the suparatists in the east since then bankrolling
salaries to local officials and the separatist military forces.

No wonder -- Ukraine had blockaded Donbass completely and Russia was
forced to pay money to all the people living on the blockaded territory,
not allowing them to die of hunger etc.

Do you actually believe these things you say? ;)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

You (and many people in the West) call a puppet government any
government friendly to Russia. ;-) It is wrong of course. And in Russia
many also stick such labels to the US satellites.

A puppet government is not hard to describe. It is a government put in place of an existing government by force. That is what Russia has tried to do in Ukraine. They have done that on a smaller scale in some regions of Ukraine.

Why should the Ukrainian people allow Russian troops enter freely?
Would Russia allow Ukrainian troops to enter freely?

Ukrainian President could chose two way to treat Russia - diplomacy or a
war. As an idiot he chose a war and a great damage to his country.

That was not a choice he made. That was a choice Russia made.

Ukraine has already lost much more than it would lose in the peaceful
variant of resistance.

What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?

Well, how to explain it to you -- suppose you
meet a bad strong company who demands money from you. And you should
weigh carefully your broken bones and medical bills against some money
you give away. ;=))

I see. Ukraine should have given Russia it's money so Russia wouldn't break their bones?

Do you actually believe these things you say? ;)

What is wrong? The fact that Ukraine has blockaded Donbass for 8 years?

The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded it?

I can believe that Russian has blockaded Ukrainian exports of wheat and other goods. Going so far as to steal Ukrainian wheat.

https://youtu.be/ZC0tSAJ5WSY

This is what you are defending and supporting.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

A puppet government is not hard to describe. It is a government put
in place of an existing government by force. That is what Russia
has tried to do in Ukraine. They have done that on a smaller scale
in some regions of Ukraine.

Well, to say the truth, it is a common worldwide practice. The US has
done it all the the time when it wants to have a friendly government in
some country. It was in Haiti, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua etc, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Libya. Military juntas installed by the US is a common thing in the South America, remember Chile for instance. So it is
not the US who has a moral right to teach others in this respect.

You are deflecting. We are talking about Russian actions in Ukraine and what a puppet government is.

What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?

Well it easy -- western economic sanctions are a 20 times more effective weapon than the resistance of the Ukrainian good-for-nothing troops dug
down in civil areas and towns

Sanctions are not a weapon. They are a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If Russia had not done that there would be no sanctions. The same is true of the sanctions imposed after Russia originally invaded Ukraine some years back although those sanctions were on a much smaller scale.

-- the main cause of numeral deaths of
civilians in Ukraine. Also these bastards prohibit civilians to leave
the towns under an attack. It is a well known fact. Russian people in
such towns are used as a living shield of the Ukrainian army.

You've been watching to much Russian state TV, you should stop that. It is not doing you any good.

Today the Donbass is destroyed, by Russian forces. Not something else.

I see. Ukraine should have given Russia it's money so Russia
wouldn't break their bones?

Not money, but concessions -- it just should to stop its nationalistic
policy towards the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine, to give an autonomy to Russian-speaking regions. It was realistic.

So we are back at concessions again? What concessions do you imagine Ukraine should offer to you, so that you don't break their bones?

The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that Ukraine
blockaded it?

By tanks and military of course.

Yes, of course. How and why do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded their own territory?

Well, the main task for the West now is to carry out the Ukrainian grain
out of the country.

You are not making any sense. It is not a task of the west to carry anything out of Ukraine. It never was.

The declared aim is to feed the world population.

Nothing has been declared. The Russian blockade of Ukraine's exports creates a world food shortage, among other things.

Russia is also participate in the process --

Yes, Russia participated in the theft of this grain from Ukraine.

Russia is the largest producer of grain in the world. If it wanted to help any country it could ship it's grain to them itself.

That is not what happened. Russia shipped wheat stolen from Ukraine.

it doesn't confiscate the grain for itself.

No it doesn't. That grain was stolen from Ukraine.

There are many grain in Ukraine on the Russian held
territory and it is logically to say that only Russian ships can deliver
it out.

What!? Ukraine will ship their wheat, not Russia.

Russia has much wheat that they can ship if they so choose.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Hi, Alan Ianson!
I read your message from 28.05.2022 09:53

AI>>> What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?
ak>> Well it easy -- western economic sanctions are a 20 times more
ak>> effective weapon than the resistance of the Ukrainian good-for-
ak>> nothing troops dug down in civil areas and towns

AI> Sanctions are not a weapon. They are a reaction to the Russian
AI> invasion of Ukraine. If Russia had not done that there would be no
AI> sanctions. The same is true of the sanctions imposed after Russia
AI> originally invaded Ukraine some years back although those sanctions
AI> were on a much smaller scale.

Even a word in mass-media is a weapon. Russia has got under sanctions
because it lost an information war. And many have believed that Russia
is guilty in everything, however there are many of those who must share
the blame, whose policy has been not less reckless than Putin's.

ak>> -- the main cause of numeral deaths of civilians in Ukraine. Also
ak>> these bastards prohibit civilians to leave the towns under an
ak>> attack. It is a well known fact. Russian people in such towns are
ak>> used as a living shield of the Ukrainian army.

AI> You've been watching to much Russian state TV, you should stop
AI> that. It is not doing you any good.

Just tell me - who resists civilians to leave a Ukrainian town under
siege? Russian troops?

<skipped>
ak>> Not money, but concessions -- it just should to stop its
ak>> nationalistic policy towards the Russian-speaking population in
ak>> Ukraine, to give an autonomy to Russian-speaking regions. It was
ak>> realistic.

AI> So we are back at concessions again? What concessions do you
AI> imagine Ukraine should offer to you, so that you don't break their
AI> bones?

If a person is an idiot, deaf and hate you -- you can speak to him even
for 8 years without result. So it was with Ukrainian politicians.

AI>>> The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that
AI>>> Ukraine blockaded it?

ak>> By tanks and military of course.

AI> Yes, of course. How and why do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded
AI> their own territory?

It blockaded the living people who were against the Kiev 2014 coup. And
such a reaction was predictable. Yanukovich had been an elected
President, it meant that more than a half of Ukraine (without Crimea) supported him.

ak>> Well, the main task for the West now is to carry out the Ukrainian
ak>> grain out of the country.
AI> You are not making any sense. It is not a task of the west to carry
AI> anything out of Ukraine. It never was.
ak>> The declared aim is to feed the world population.
AI> Nothing has been declared. The Russian blockade of Ukraine's
AI> exports creates a world food shortage, among other things.

It is a poor propaganda that Russian navy doesn't allow Ukrainian or
other ships to carry grain from Ukraine. There is no sense in that, more
of that -- all Ukrainian ports are mined by Ukraine itself.

ak>> Russia is also participate in the process --
AI> Yes, Russia participated in the theft of this grain from Ukraine.
AI> Russia is the largest producer of grain in the world. If it wanted
AI> to help any country it could ship it's grain to them itself.

Yes, it can provide the world with its own grain. I think the scale of
so called theft should be checked -- after Russia had built the Crimean
bridge and the highway from Kerch to Sevastopol it can be logical to
carry the grain from Russia's Kuban region to Sevastopol port by land.
So the grain shown in that CNN report could be Russian.
<skipped>


Bye, Alan!
Alexander Koryagin
fido.debate,local.cc.ak 2022
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* Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)

Tell me (and to all who read it) what is the sense for Russian troops to block the Russian civilians to leave the city? You make make me laugh.
ROFL to be more exact.

It also makes me ROTFL, watching Russia spin these tales.

The Ukrainian politicians are nationalists and they

What do you think Russian politicians are, or ambassadors?

I just read the Russian ambassador to the UK spin some wild tales. It was laughable. In spite of those fabrications we are not going to invade Russia.

have discriminated a big part of the Ukrainian population. They want to
make Ukrainians from Russians, by force. This item is enough to
hate them for Russian people.

That is simply untrue.

Russians steal vast amounts of Ukrainian grain and equipment,
threatening this year's harvest.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/05/europe/russia-ukraine-grain-theft-cmd-intl/inde >> . html or..

https://tinyurl.com/4fdf479p

You are wrong -- as "liberators of Russian population" in

First you were liberating Ukraine and now you are "liberators of Russian population". Make up your mind.

eastern and southern Ukraine Russia cannot confiscate the harvest.

No, it can't. It was stolen.

The Local population now officially sell it and gets money. So the
following URL news is not a fake.

It is fake right on it's face.

https://ria.ru/20220530/zerno-1791654673.html

It is very likely it is the source of the grain from the CNN report.

No, the grain from the CNN report was stolen.

People need money and naturally they sell their goods. Why not?

Sure the people of Ukraine have been selling their wheat for a long time.

You compare Russian invasion with the invasion of Germany in 1941 and it is your main mistake.

No mistake. Ask yourself "why would Ukrainians sell their wheat to Russians" when they have already many customers waiting. They wouldn't do that.

Why would Russia buy wheat from Ukraine when they have much already, not blockaded in any way?

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is much worse than the invasion of Russia by Germany even after a short time.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Western part of Ukraine is a nationalist hive and has always been, even
in the USSR.

The western part of Ukraine is no more nationalistic than Russia.

So the most sober policy is to free the south and east of Ukraine where population is still pro-Russian, even after the havoc of the war.

The most sober policy is to let Ukraine be what it is, and become what it wants to become.

It's easy - people (peasants for instance) should live -- they sell
their goods to have money and buy other goods.

Of course, but we are not talking about peasants here. Ukraine has been selling it's wheat for generations. What we saw (grain be loaded onto Russian ships) was the theft of that grain by Russia.

The idea that they should lie on ground and die is wrong.

I agree, and that is why Ukraine has not laid down on the ground and died.

There is no a single motive for Russia to stole wheat.

No motive? :)

Why? Russia can buy it.

Is Russia a wheat merchant? No. Russia is full of their own wheat. They did not buy wheat from peasants.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)