Hi All...


What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in parts of the world? Canada is a tz mess now.

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In reply to Aug where he said:
|05▌ |08What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in parts of the world?|07
|05▌ |08Canada is a tz mess now.|07

Every year I am for it. All this back and forth seems ridiculous.

But then comes a Sunday like this last one (here in Ohio), and I get to sleep in one extra hour and it *really* feels nice. If we always had DST, I'd remember it that one last time, and then I'd never get this feeling agian.

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Hello Petar!

** On Monday 02.11.26 - 12:12, Petar Smilajkov wrote to Aug:

In reply to Aug where he said:

What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in parts of
the world? Canada is a tz mess now.|07

Every year I am for it. All this back and forth seems ridiculous.

But then comes a Sunday like this last one (here in Ohio), and I get to sleep in one extra hour and it *really* feels nice. If we always had DST, I'd remember it that one last time, and then I'd never get this feeling agian.

The issue with permanent DST is that in wintertime, the sunrise is much later in the morning. For one thing, kids waiting for schoolbuses will out in the dark before 8a.

Standard time follows natural time better. That is, the highest point for the sun is right at noon.

I can imagine that people who sleep late when dark mornings make no difference to them, or those who want more time on the golf course, permanent DST is their preference. :/

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On 2026-11-02 20:52:00, August Abolins wrote to Petar Smilajkov:

The issue with permanent DST is that in wintertime, the sunrise is much later in the morning. For one thing, kids waiting for schoolbuses will out in the dark before 8a.

Standard time follows natural time better. That is, the highest point for the sun is right at noon.

Hello Aug!

Thinking about it more, I think we actually agree. What I'm really against is the switching back and forth. If we have to pick one and stay there, I'd keep what we're on right now, since last Sunday: standard time. I'd much rather it get dark early in the evening than start the day in the dark.

Here in Ohio, on the western edge of Eastern time, permanent DST would push December sunrises to almost 9am. No thanks.

CloudDancer

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Hi All...

What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in parts of
the world? Canada is a tz mess now.

I think it is stupid. The USA tried it before, in the early 1970s. We had to abandon it because it didn't "work." Energy wasn't saved, as hoped, and the populace as a whole realized they hated it.

The difference now would be that there are some pretty strong lobbies that want to see it happen that probably won't make it too easy to switch back should it happen. For example, you are much less likely to spend your Summer evenings golfing if the Sun doesn't stay out until almost 9pm in June and July.

Staying on Standard Time would make more sense. Arizona and Hawaii do it and have no problems. Indiana used to do that, until the lobbyists got them about 20 years ago.

It is no coincidence at all that one of the biggest proponents of it in the USA is our golf-loving leader.




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Aug wrote to All <=-

What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in parts of the world? Canada is a tz mess now.

Twitter is full of idiots debating about permanent DST versus permanent
standard time. To me it makes more sense to stick with standard time
and not switch, but apparently anyone who believes that is a
mouth-breather who isn't thinking of the children. Or Anti-Semitic. Or
doesn't value freedom.

I need to spend less time on Twitter.



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Petar Smilajkov wrote to Aug <=-

But then comes a Sunday like this last one (here in Ohio), and I get to sleep in one extra hour and it *really* feels nice. If we always had
DST, I'd remember it that one last time, and then I'd never get this feeling agian.

You could always, and I'm just making a wild assumption here - sleep in
an extra hour on Sunday when you want to? You don't even need to tell
anyone.

Oh, now someone's going to suggest "personal DST" as a means of
expression and personal health and intellectual growth. I can't wait to
try and schedule a meeting when DST is a personal choice for emotional
health... :)






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August Abolins wrote to Petar Smilajkov <=-

I can imagine that people who sleep late when dark mornings make no difference to them, or those who want more time on the golf course, permanent DST is their preference.

And, in the USA, who lobbies the politicians? People walking their kids
to the bus stop or people playing golf in their leisure time? Seeing
politicians chiming in, pro-DST in the middle of war, inflation,
joblessness, supply-chain issues and political tension just seems
Absurd - unless they're getting paid.










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Aug wrote to All <=-

What do 'yall think of the adoption of permanent dst in
parts of the world? Canada is a tz mess now.

Twitter is full of idiots debating about permanent DST versus
permanent
standard time. To me it makes more sense to stick with
standard time
and not switch, but apparently anyone who believes that is a
mouth-breather who isn't thinking of the children. Or
Anti-Semitic. Or
doesn't value freedom.

I need to spend less time on Twitter.

That is because Dear Leader has told them that we need permanent DST so he can spend more time golfing.

Mike

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Oh, now someone's going to suggest "personal DST" as a means
of
expression and personal health and intellectual growth. I
can't wait to
try and schedule a meeting when DST is a personal choice for
emotional
health... :)

I have been staying on Standard Time since 2023. Since I am able to tell time properly, I know this means that for part of the year I need to either convert (or use the time on my phone) if I am supposed to be meeting with anyone.

I may have an unfair advantage, though. Growing up on Eastern time, most of my relatives lived in Central so I had to be able to figure the time difference out. A few of them lived in Indiana which, at that time, meant I also had to remember that they were only behind us for half the year. I also grew up without being lobbied. ;)

Mike

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Mike Powell wrote to Aug <=-

I think it is stupid. The USA tried it before, in the early 1970s. We had to abandon it because it didn't "work." Energy wasn't saved, as hoped, and the populace as a whole realized they hated it.

The big problem there is people (especially here in the US) have zero patience. "Trying" it in the 1970s before reverting so quickly is the same reason the US will never fully adopt the metric system. Someone will complain and the Powers That Be will acquiesce and change it back the way it was. If it's going to be done, it's best to just do it and leave it there regardless of who complains.

The difference now would be that there are some pretty strong lobbies[...]

I think a better argument is that these days people are more familiar with time zones in other parts of the world, though even that is not wholly true either.

I am of the camp of "Pick one and leave it there", doesn't really matter to me which one is decided. If I had to choose though, Standard Time is best.

To this day, one of my biggest pet peeves is when people get "EDT" and "EST" confused. If they're talking about a meeting in December and they use EDT for the time, I have to wonder what planet they're on. If they use "EST" for a meeting in July, I have to wonder where they are in the world, if they're in Indiana or not. (I saw what you wrote on that, I did not know that all of IN now follows Daylight Saving Time.)


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Hey Timex!

On Wed, Nov 04 2026 19:57:26 +0000, you wrote:

reason the US will never fully adopt the metric system. Someone will

Or the fact that we've (maybe not fully) adopted both. Both can be (and are) used, and both are easy. Mixing the two, you may get confused, though. ;)

I am of the camp of "Pick one and leave it there", doesn't really matter
to me which one is decided. If I had to choose though, Standard Time is best.

I have no issue with using the most out of the daylight. While it may not affect people that sit in an office all day, it definitely works out for construction trades, and farmers, and basically anything else that actually utilizes daylight, including golfers, apparently!

Regards,
Nick

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Mike Powell wrote to Aug <=-

I think it is stupid. The USA tried it before, in the
early 1970s. We had to abandon it because it didn't
"work." Energy wasn't saved, as hoped, and the populace as
a whole realized they hated it.

The big problem there is people (especially here in the US) have
zero patience. "Trying" it in the 1970s before reverting so
quickly is the same reason the US will never fully adopt the
metric system. Someone will complain and the Powers That Be
will acquiesce and change it back the way it was. If it's going
to be done, it's best to just do it and leave it there
regardless of who complains.

I think in that case it really caused a lot of problems, and most of the public was against keeping year-round DST, not just a vocal few.

You are correct about some things these days when it comes the vocal few.

I think a better argument is that these days people are more
familiar with time zones in other parts of the world, though
even that is not wholly true either.

I am not real sure about that, either. I have run into a lot of people my age and younger who really don't have a clue. That confuses me because that was a big thing in science class when I was in school. Maybe because it was immediately after the year-round DST fiasco and became a hot topic then.

I have met adults who honestly believe that it is the observance of DST, and not the tilt and orbit of the Earth, that causes the Sun to stay out longer. I doubt they have much of a grasp on time zones if they believe that. :D

I am of the camp of "Pick one and leave it there", doesn't
really matter to me which one is decided. If I had to choose
though, Standard Time is best.

Agreed here!

To this day, one of my biggest pet peeves is when people get
"EDT" and "EST" confused. If they're talking about a meeting in
December and they use EDT for the time, I have to wonder what
planet they're on. If they use "EST" for a meeting in July, I
have to wonder where they are in the world, if they're in
Indiana or not. (I saw what you wrote on that, I did not know
that all of IN now follows Daylight Saving Time.)

Yeah, Indiana goofed and adopted the time changes about 20 years ago.

I have seen what you are talking about regarding meetings. I sometimes think that is a software bug or incorrect TZ setting on a computer or server. I had not considered that someone might have chose that on purpose.

Mike

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I have no issue with using the most out of the daylight. While
it may not affect people that sit in an office all day, it
definitely works out for construction trades, and farmers, and
basically anything else that actually utilizes daylight,
including golfers, apparently!

The idea that farmers are/were collectively pro-DST is a myth.

Mike

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Mike Powell wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

That is because Dear Leader has told them that we need permanent DST so
he can spend more time golfing.

He doesn't golf after work.

I wonder what industry has a vested interest in preserving daylight saving time. Must me someone making a buck off of it and lobbying for it, since
I see politicians taking a position without clearly understanding the
choice.



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Hey Mike!

On Thu, Nov 05 2026 15:32:00 -0600, you wrote:

The idea that farmers are/were collectively pro-DST is a myth.

I didn't say a thing about them being pro-DST. I said it works out for them, right along with construction workers. More daylight can get more work accomplished, is all.

Regards,
Nick

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Mike Powell wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

That is because Dear Leader has told them that we need
permanent DST so he can spend more time golfing.

He doesn't golf after work.

I wonder what industry has a vested interest in preserving
daylight saving time. Must me someone making a buck off of it
and lobbying for it, since I see politicians taking a position
without clearly understanding the choice.

I honestly do think the golf industry has something to do with it. That wasn't just a guess. They believe that year-round DST will bring in $1 Billion in additional revenue.

I would also guess they are not the only ones.


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Hey Mike!

On Thu, Nov 05 2026 15:32:00 -0600, you wrote:

The idea that farmers are/were collectively pro-DST is a
myth.

I didn't say a thing about them being pro-DST. I said it works
out for them, right along with construction workers. More
daylight can get more work accomplished, is all.

I cannot speak for construction. Most farmers work from dawn to dusk no matter what the clock says. The animals will start stirring as soon as the Sun is out. Even if they only have crops they are still out dawn to dusk. They don't really care what time the clock says it is. If the Sun is out an hour earlier, they will be out an hour earlier, and end their day an hour earlier.

I would guess that a whole lot of *non-union* outdoor employment works like that, too. As an example, the lawn mowing companies around here don't seem to care what time it is... if the Sun is out at 6:30am, they are mowing grass, and will be mowing until the Sun goes down. If it was up an hour earlier, they'd be out mowing then, too.

On the longest day of the year in June, it is out nearly 15 hours here.


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Nick Boel wrote to Timex <=-

Or the fact that we've (maybe not fully) adopted both. Both can be (and are) used, and both are easy. Mixing the two, you may get confused, though. ;)

That's a good point. Soda is in metric (except for cans), a lot of foods
are measured in grams or ounces/pounds, depending on context.

Distance can be seen in km and miles on signs in states that border Candada.
(I grew up in Maine, it was like that all over the place.)

Temperature is still decidedly Imperial measurements.

I have no issue with using the most out of the daylight. While it may
not affect people that sit in an office all day, it definitely works
out for construction trades, and farmers, and basically anything else
that actually utilizes daylight, including golfers, apparently!

I've worked most of the last 20 years at a company where all the devices
were using UTC. I knew time zones because we would have to call out to clients, preferably during their business hours, and they were all over
the world.


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Mike Powell wrote to Timex <=-

I am not real sure about that, either. I have run into a lot of people
my age and younger who really don't have a clue. That confuses me
because that was a big thing in science class when I was in school.
Maybe because it was immediately after the year-round DST fiasco and became a hot topic then.

Imagine the fun of having coworkers whose job requires being familiar with
time zones, and they STILL mess them up, even though they've been doing it
for years.

The worst, though, was working with clients in Australia (I'm in the US). Sydney is in AEST/AEDT (Australian Eastern Standart Time/etc). They don't change time back or forward at the time time we do (I think they're a
week off?), and when we're going back they're going forward (and vice-versa). It's fun to try to wrap your brain around. I ended up keeping an index card with Standard Time/Daylight Saving Time for work hours here and there, so I could convert times without straining my brain.

I have met adults who honestly believe that it is the observance of
DST, and not the tilt and orbit of the Earth, that causes the Sun to
stay out longer. I doubt they have much of a grasp on time zones if
they believe that. :D

I can believe that, sadly. People are going to do People Things.

I have seen what you are talking about regarding meetings. I sometimes think that is a software bug or incorrect TZ setting on a computer or server. I had not considered that someone might have chose that on purpose.

i WISH it was just a software bug. These folks would do that in emails
they wrote, without using macros, templates, or anything like that. It was
all them. :\


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Kurt Weiske wrote to Mike Powell <=-

I had someone at work, who I really don't understand, try to schedule
a
meeting. This person is on Eastern Time, I'm Pacific. I gave her my
availability, specifically called out that it was PDT (this was a few
weeks ago). She converted into PST and scheduled the meeting one hour
off. Not only unaware of time zones but unfamiliar with how they work!

I've been doing interviews with a company recently, and the Talent Acquisition person, who knows I'm in Eastern Time, keeps scheduling interviews in Central Time. Fortunately the invites specify Central Time, so when I confirm them
I specify the time in CT and ET, just in case there was some confusion.

As for the offshore teams? It's interesting to have them schedule a
6:30am meeting with me to be accomodating to their working hours. I'm
the customer, here.

I've done that with me being in US/Eastern and clients being in Sydney, AU
(and they're in Australian Eastern Time). When we change times, we're going
in different directions, which can get very confusing.

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